6.8spc vs 223/5.56 vs 7.62x39?

[Antihero]

So ive got a 10mm Olympic AR, my first AR i might add, and i was thinking of getting an upper or 2 and i need some advice.

I plan on getting a 50 Beowulf upper with my tax return this year, but i wanted to add a mid bore actual rifle caliber upper and im kinda stuck on what to get.

I had planned on getting a 5.56 upper just for the price of ammo and availability, 10mm aint cheap and neither is the Beowulf, but frankly besides defence against people and the occasional rabid chipmunk the caliber is basically useless to me.

The 7.62x39 is a bit better, it can be used for deer sized targets and ammo is still cheap but i hear that there is some jamming issues.

The 6.8spc is said to be enough gun for anything up to black bear, and while it seems a bit light for bear to me, its still many times better than the 5.56. Ammo isnt cheap nor plentiful, but it isnt that hard to find nor terribly expensive.

On the other hand the 50 Beowulf could cover any of my large-angry-bear problems and the 10mm could cover anything home defence orientated so maybe i should just get something thats cheap to shoot?

Anyway im sorta hoping someone has an opinion they'd like to share that helps me decide????

 

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a beo and love it. I also have a 762x39 bushmaster and its been a good reliable gun that even feeds wolf with no problem. Only thing ive done is to purchase c products mags and put extra power wolf ak47 springs in them. The 6.8 has some ballistic advantage but not enough to outweight the ammo availability and ammo cost. Main reason i chose it over the 6.8 is i can buy a case of wolf go to camp and blast away and not even have to worry about picking up my brass and i can also buy a couple cases to squirrel away and to keep 2k of 6.8 ammo on hand id probably have to take out a second morgage.

 

[Tirod]

Lots of people gripe about the cost of ammo. What they want is 25c a round regardless of the market demand or actual cost of production. If ammo price is a major concern, then I have to ask, what were the ballistics all about in the first place? Bottlerockets would do as good for cheap.

As you point out, ammo costs for NON GOVERNMENT calibers aren't cheap. Well, none of them are, except .22. If ballistics for actual use on live targets in real life have any merit at all, then demanding cheap ammo means reloading, and it's time some people get over it. Blasting a crate at your campsite and leaving the brass isn't shooting. It's something else entirely, and not on topic.

Ballistics are important in the choices presented. In terms of flatness of trajectory, 5.56 allows the least holdover, with 6.8 next, then 7.62x39 dead last. In terms of footpounds of force, it's about the projectile weight - which can be juggled around in each caliber, within limits. The higher the weight, the slower the bullet.

5.56 is disallowed in some states for hunting, right or wrong. What's important is that it's considered to have inadequate power to humanely use on deer sized game at the extreme of it's range, 400m. 6.8 was definitely designed to add more power, about 50% more, at that extreme. It does tend to drop more, but it does deliver a lot more power. 7.62x39 does that just as well, with a ballistic profile very similar to .30-30. It drops even more, but adds a bit more power.

What works in the action is also important. 5.56 and 6.8 use lightly tapered cases, but over 20 rounds requires a properly curved magazine - which the straight mag well of the M16 doesn't accomodate. Add more taper, and you get a frankenmag with a straight wall section grafted to a curved section. The fact that 7.62x39 mags for AR's work at all is a miracle of technology. That doesn't make it a great caliber to use - just sticking to 5.56 will get better feeding and reliability without all the special parts.

For a general all around, all purpose shooter, one that can be hunted with, the 6.8 is a good choice. Hunters aren't ammo blasters, they are concerned with terminal effect. It's exactly why 5th Special Forces invented it. That's why deer and hog hunters have made the caliber the #1 alternate choice. Not having dirt cheap surplus supported by taxpayers is why it's not a blaster ammo choice, but as you said, neither is 10mm. The same could be said for a hundred other calibers. Why 6.8 is constantly griped at for not being cheap is really naive.

Of the choices, I'm building a 6.8 SPC as an all around shooter, for hunting and whatever. Those who want can justify other calibers, but it really boils down to the largest caliber suited for the AR platform, which keeps it light and handy, without recoil becoming objectionable. It doesn't need to be a bear round, I'd feel undergunned with .30-06. But it is enough gun, especially for the 150# class of target, and effective. It also works with the AR design, as only the barrel, bolt, and magazine need changing. They can all be made from GI spec material, not super alloys required to compensate for oversized dimensions, like the AK bolt face requirement.

It boils down to what you want the caliber to do, and if all it needs to do is make noise, a .22 upper would be the best choice - cheap, and available. No one cares much if you leave that brass lying around, it's expected.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Well you have a 10mm and a .50 already so what EXACTLY would this upper be used for.

Don't buy into the Internet wisdom with regards to .223"s effectivness. Shooting quality projectiles it's DEADLY to anything under 250lbs on the foot or hoof. I've owned x39 ar's and do own a wildcat SPC based 30 cal upper. After actually using .223 on deer if I had it to do all over again I'd just build a .223 upper specifically for deer. (24" lightweight bbl"

 

[Steelshooter101]

Most of the shooter's I know with diff upper's prefer the 6.8. It is close to a 270 and if you reload a large host of bullets are available which makes it good as a varmint up to large game. the guys tell me it is outstanding on pronghorn.

 

[R.W.Dale]

The 6.8 is about as close to 270 as 7.62x39 is to 30/06

In other words not very

 

[ugaarguy]

The 6.8spc is said to be enough gun for anything up to black bear, and while it seems a bit light for bear to me, its still many times better than the 5.56.

I used to think that too. Then I looked at 5.56 MK262 Mod 0 / Mod 1. 5.56 is far more versatile, and far more available. If you want to shoot 7.62x39, why not just get an SKS for half the price of an AR upper?

 

[C-grunt]

Look into the new 300 AAC/Blackout. Its basically remington and AAC mass producing the 300 Whisper. Has ballistics very close to 7.62x39 but will run reliably in an AR. Plus they are saying that when it releases they will have more ammo than 6.8 and it will be cheaper as well.

 

[Justin]

I had planned on getting a 5.56 upper just for the price of ammo and availability, 10mm aint cheap and neither is the Beowulf, but frankly besides defence against people and the occasional rabid chipmunk the caliber is basically useless to me.

To what use do you want to put this new upper/cartridge combination?

Based on your description, it sounds like you want to possibly use it as a hunting rifle?

 

[mbogo]

If you want to shoot 7.62x39, why not just get an SKS for half the price of an AR upper?

ugaarguy has it dead right!

Unless you are wholly committed to owning a new upper, you can probably buy an SKS and scope it for less than the cost of a similarly equipped 7.62x39 upper. You will also have one more gun, which is what we all want, all the time.

mbogo

 

[longdayjake]

6.8 is a fine cartridge for hunting. And those of you that are all scared of black bear must not have ever seen any. They are tiny and a .223 is more than enough to take out a black bear. Brown and Griz is another story but black bear has never been hard to kill.

I own a 6.8 and a 6.5 Grendel. Though they are both accurate rifles, I am leaning towards the 6.5. It just does what I want it to do a little better than the 6.8.

 

[Ryder0001]

If you are going for the 7.62x39 why not just get a AK for around the same price as an upper? I got a 5.56 DMPS and LOVE IT! Theres a reason why the military has kept the round ,light, flat shooter, and a man killer.... Also a great plinker!. I'm hopeing that when we get out of Afghanistan that the market will flood with Military surplus 5.56!!!(keeping fingers crossed) 6.8 is a great round a tad pricey though. You already have a .50 for big game so why not get the 5.56 or an AK for fun/varmit !

 

[Justin]

If you want to shoot 7.62x39, why not just get an SKS for half the price of an AR upper?

While I'm agnostic on the utility of an AR upper in 7.62x39, there are a number of clear advantages that the AR-pattern rifle has over the SKS. The ability to use detachable box magazines, better ergonomics, and a high degree of modularity are all advantages that an AR-pattern gun would have over an SKS.

 

[Antihero]

To what use do you want to put this new upper/cartridge combination?

Based on your description, it sounds like you want to possibly use it as a hunting rifle?

Honestly im not sure, i dont really hunt but if i ever do i could use the 6.8spc for deer and black bear. The 5.56 besides being a good defence round is basically useless to me, and both the 10mm and beowulf would work just as well in the defence category. The upside of the 5.56 is ammo price and availability.

Basically i just got my first AR and am enamored with the multiple uses and calibers of this system and im just wondering what a good all around stable would be for the gun.

If you are going for the 7.62x39 why not just get a AK for around the same price as an upper?

Im thinking the same thing. Im not a real fan of the AK ergonomic and sight wise, they seem to all have a very short LOP, but you can find them cheap just about everywhere and mags and such are very easy to find, not so much with the 7.62x39 AR's.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

[GunTech]

5.56 works fine on small deer if you state allows it. I wouldn't trust 6.8 on a bear.

For self defense, keep in mind that 10mm and 50 beowulf have much more penetration versus sheetrock than 5.56.

 

[rbernie]

I have multiple AR uppers in 5.56, 6.8SPC, and 7.62x39. For most any social and range uses, 5.56 rocks in both utility and price. If I had the hankering for a round that threw a heavier bullet, I would reach for the 6.8SPC as the best 'all-arounder' of the 5.56 alternatives. That's not to say that it's best for all things (the 6.5 Grendel does better at distance, and the 458 does better inside of 100 yards, and the 7.62x39 does better for cheap ammo availability, and the heavy 30-cal variants do better with cans, and so forth) but it's a solid yeoman's choice for a second chambering in the AR platform and is better supported in the industry (based on ammo and part availability) than most any other alternative chambering.

Having said all of that, it really does sound as if you have no immediate uses for an upper in an alternative chambering. In that case, I would actually recommend that you get a second or third 5.56 upper in differing configurations, so that you could have a varminting upper and a CQB upper and so forth.

Up until you get to the point that hunting use is on the table, you'll probably get much more use out of differing uppers in 5.56 than you will out of uppers in alternative chamberings.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Honestly im not sure, i dont really hunt but if i ever do i could use the 6.8spc for deer and black bear. The 5.56 besides being a good defence round is basically useless to me, and both the 10mm and beowulf would work just as well in the defence category. The upside of the 5.56 is ammo price and availability.

Let's think about this for a minute

If you don't hunt and all the above mentioned cartridges are adequate (and they are) for SD that really only leaves target/plinking shooting as a possible use. There's really only 3 things you can do with a rifle that involves shooting the thing SD, hunting and target shootin and you only do two out of these three

So please explain what makes 5.56 useless to you? A cartrige that will allow you to shoot 3 to 4 times as much per dollar and will function in the AR platform using even the cheapest mags or better yet p-mags and will place holes on paper more accurately than any of the mentioned rounds at range given the proper twist. Not to mention the ability to use a 22lr conversion

Everyone needs at least one NORMAL upper IE .223

 

[amprecon]

If I had to grab one of my rifles to depart my residence in a rapid fashion for fear of my life, it would probably be my RRA LAR-6.8. It just seems to be that perfect intermediary round that does everything....well, adequately enough.
I have considered if the BG's were hiding behind a large vehicle or other significant cover and firing in my direction, which would I rather be shooting back at them with, a .223 or a 6.8, didn't take long to figure that one out, ammo cost not a factor.

 

[ritepath]

I'm wanting a 6.8 to Whitetail hunt with, I'm gonna buy a upper for now, and a lower next spring or summer....ammo really isn't that much more if any than most hunting rounds. I suppose I can buy 20rnd of 270 a few bucks cheaper but that's about it. When you're talking shooting 20 or 30 rounds a year it won't break the bank.

 

[ugaarguy]

While I'm agnostic on the utility of an AR upper in 7.62x39, there are a number of clear advantages that the AR-pattern rifle has over the SKS. The ability to use detachable box magazines, better ergonomics, and a high degree of modularity are all advantages that an AR-pattern gun would have over an SKS

I agree on the modularity, and the ergos wholehartedly. However, and I may be totally out of the loop here, is anyone making decent 7.62x39 AR-15 mags?

I have considered if the BG's were hiding behind a large vehicle or other significant cover and firing in my direction, which would I rather be shooting back at them with, a .223 or a 6.8, didn't take long to figure that one out, ammo cost not a factor.

I'd like to see some barrier tests of heavy construction 6.8 SPC rounds- namely the CorBon DPX (AKA Barnes X Bullet), and Remington CoreLokt Ultra Bonded. Federal LE at one posted their results with their .223 / 5.56 Tactical Bonded (AKA Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw), M855 Ball (AKA NATO Green Tip Steel Core). I'm quite curious to see how the Barnes X and Remington Ultra Bonded do against things like laminated auto safety glass. The TBBC, even out a .223 / 5.56, does surprisingly well. If you have a stock pile of 6.8 SPC that's proven itself in testing to handle barriers, then go for it.

 

[68wj]

I'd like to see some barrier tests of heavy construction 6.8 SPC rounds- namely the CorBon DPX (AKA Barnes X Bullet), and Remington CoreLokt Ultra Bonded. Federal LE at one posted their results with their .223 / 5.56 Tactical Bonded (AKA Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw), M855 Ball (AKA NATO Green Tip Steel Core). I'm quite curious to see how the Barnes X and Remington Ultra Bonded do against things like laminated auto safety glass. The TBBC, even out a .223 / 5.56, does surprisingly well. If you have a stock pile of 6.8 SPC that's proven itself in testing to handle barriers, then go for it.

Best I could find for documented comparison testing. http://www.68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7274 No Barnes bullets though