Stephen A. Camp
Moderator In Memoriam
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,430
Johnny, while this does contain some handload information, it also contains factory rounds' data. It seemed more right to post it here than under the "autoloaders" area, but certainly feel free to move it.....Steve
Hello. Like many of you, I chorongraph various factory rounds and handloads in an effort to see what I'm actually getting in terms of accuracy, consistency of the load, and of course, velocity.
I recently chronographed several 9mm loads through an FN Competition Hi Power w/6" bbl and today checked several of the same loads from an STI Trojan Longslide with the same length bbl.
Average velocities are based on 10-shot groups fired about 10' from the chronograph. Extreme Spreads and Standard Deviations are also listed.
Here's what I got from theFN:
Winchester USA 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 1223 ft/sec (ES: 27.79/SD = 10.77)
Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 1287 ft/sec (ES: 23.92/SD = 10.19)
Federal 124 gr Nyclad HP Ave. Vel. = 1190 ft/sec (ES: 45.0)
Remington 124 gr std pressure
Golden Saber Ave. Vel. = 1137 ft/sec (ES: 202.5)
Corbon 115 gr +P JHP Ave. Vel. = 1466 ft/sec (ES: 43.43/SD = 16.70)
Triton 125 gr +P Hi Vel JHP Ave. Vel. = 1348 ft/sec (ES: 17.54/SD = 7.48)
Glaser Silver 70 gr Prefrag Ave. Vel. = 1640 ft/sec (ES: 33/SD: 11)
Remington 115 gr +P JHP Ave. Vel. = 1308 ft/sec (ES: 14.86/SD = 6.78)
Handload: 124 gr Hornady XTP(moly-coated)/6.0 gr Unique/IMI cases/Win SP Primer
LOA ~ 1.11" Ave. Vel. = 1308 ft/sec (ES: 29.24/SD = 11.78)
From the STI:
Winchester USA 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1207 ft/sec(ES: 102/SD: 38)
PMP 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1106 ft/sec (ES: 75/SD: 22)
Hirtenberger 100 gr JSP "FL" Ave. Vel = 1378 ft/sec (ES: 42/SD: 12)
Hornady 124 gr XTP Handload
6.0 gr Unique
WSP Primer
IMI Cases
LOA: 1.11" Ave. Vel = 1266 ft/sec (ES:92/SD: 30)
Speer 124 gr GDHP Handload
Same as above
LOA: 1.115" Ave. Vel = 1223 ft/sec (ES: 96/SD: 31)
Federal 124 gr Nyclad HP Ave. Vel = 1178 ft/sec (ES: 33/SD: 11)
Federal 115 gr JHP (9BP) Ave. Vel = 1196 ft/sec (ES: 34/SD: 11)
Winchester RA9TA 127 gr +P+ Ave. Vel = 1296 ft/sec (ES: 29/SD: 9)
Magtech 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1152 ft/sec (ES: 32/SD: 10)
Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1255 ft/sec (ES: 47/SD: 14)
Rainier 124 gr PRN Handload
6.9 gr Blue Dot
WSP Primer
Starline Cases
LOA: 1.155" Ave. Vel = 1071 ft/sec (ES: 96/SD: 29)
Rucker 122 gr Cast FP Handload
Same as Above
LOA: 1.075" Ave. Vel = 1140 ft/sec(ES: 66/SD: 22)
Glaser Silver 70 gr Ave. Vel = 1639 ft/sec (ES: 21/SD: 8!!!!)
As others have noted, each gun's a law unto itself as to what that particular pistol "likes" and this can seen very graphically in the way certain factory loads are very consistent in one pistol, but not the other. I was extremely surprised as how consistent and close the velocities for the 9mm Glaser Silver 70 gr pre-fragemented bullet were from both pistols.
Note also how the 124 gr XTP handload is very consistent in the FN, but not so in the STI. Certainly, dimensional differences no doubt affect such, but I suspect that the faster 1:10 twist in the FN bbl allows the load to build more pressure and more consistently burn powder than is the case in the STI's 1:16 twist.
I could sure be wrong, but it seems a possibility. In several cases, the FN produced higher velocities than the STI with the same load. I was surprised that in several cases, the standard Browning HP (4 21/32" bbl) produced velocities with a given load that were with about 25 ft/sec of the 6" guns. There was more difference with others.
I note also that Winchester's RA9TA 127 gr +P+ JHP is an accurate and consistent load in several pistols. If you can get your mitts on this LE-only ammo, it might be worth the effort.
For example:
From a Springfield Armory XD9 w/4.05" bbl:
Ave. Velocity: 1257 ft/sec (ES: 29/SD: 11)
From a standard Browning
Hi Power w/factory 4 21/32" bbl:
Ave. Velocity: 1269 ft/sec (ES: 31/SD: 11)
From STI Trojan w/6" bbl:
Ave. Velocity: 1296 ft/sec (ES: 29/SD: 9)
I've read that if bullets travel within the more-or-less accepted 50 ft/sec of each other, they're "accurate." I've shot enough of the handloaded rounds in my Hi Powers to know that the load groups very well in them. It also groups very well from the STI despite the greater standard deviation.
I also decided to shoot some 5-shot groups at 15 yards, using a rest. The same point of aim was used so that we could see differences in POI. Loads picked were the Hornady 124 gr XTP handload for which the pistol's sighted. I then picked the lowest-velocity 115 gr FMJ load, PMP. Hirtenberger's 100 gr JSP and Glaser's 70 gr +P rounds were used to be as different from the other two as possible. (Before someone complains, I was out of the 147 gr loads which I don't keep in any big supply. Sorry.)
Even with an average velocity difference of 160 ft/sec and 9 grains bullet weight, the 124 gr XTP @ 1266 ft/sec hits in almost the same spot as the 115 gr PMP ball @ 1106 ft/sec. The lighter-but-faster 100 gr Hirtenberger JSP at an average velocity of 1378 ft/sec hit only 0.84" lower than the significantly slower rounds mentioned above. The center of the Glaser's group was about 1.2" lower than the XTP or PMP Points-of-Impact.
All 4 groups were within a 1.86" diameter circle NOT counting the damned flyer at the bottom, which was my fault. Average velocities ranged from a low of 1106 ft/sec to a high velocity of 1639 ft/sec with bullets ranging from 70 to 124 grains.
It appears that at this commonly-used distance, our own human error will cause greater variations in group-size and POI than might different loads. Certainly, differences in separate loads' POIs will become larger as distance increases, but for many of us, there's not going to be enough difference to matter.
Just for grins, I also did some "scientific mud expansion tests" with some of the loads.
Here's Hirtenberger's 100 gr JSP...
Here are three Hornady 124 gr XTPs after impacting at about 1266 ft/sec...
Speer's 124 gr GDHPs after impacting at over 1200 ft/sec...
I will admit being disappointed in the wider-than-expected variations in speed with my favored handloads from the STI, but before "knowing" this, was getting extremely tight groups using either the Hornady or the Speer JHPs. Still, the loads produce decent, but not "super" velocities from the 6" pistols over the more common 4 to 5" bbls. To me, a very good reason to watch the standard deviation is in the case of a round operating at the lower end of the velocity envelope in which the bullet will expand. If it can deviate below the minimal required for expansion, one might want to consider a different load.
Anyway, some folks might find this of use...
Best.
Hello. Like many of you, I chorongraph various factory rounds and handloads in an effort to see what I'm actually getting in terms of accuracy, consistency of the load, and of course, velocity.
I recently chronographed several 9mm loads through an FN Competition Hi Power w/6" bbl and today checked several of the same loads from an STI Trojan Longslide with the same length bbl.
Average velocities are based on 10-shot groups fired about 10' from the chronograph. Extreme Spreads and Standard Deviations are also listed.
Here's what I got from theFN:
Winchester USA 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 1223 ft/sec (ES: 27.79/SD = 10.77)
Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 1287 ft/sec (ES: 23.92/SD = 10.19)
Federal 124 gr Nyclad HP Ave. Vel. = 1190 ft/sec (ES: 45.0)
Remington 124 gr std pressure
Golden Saber Ave. Vel. = 1137 ft/sec (ES: 202.5)
Corbon 115 gr +P JHP Ave. Vel. = 1466 ft/sec (ES: 43.43/SD = 16.70)
Triton 125 gr +P Hi Vel JHP Ave. Vel. = 1348 ft/sec (ES: 17.54/SD = 7.48)
Glaser Silver 70 gr Prefrag Ave. Vel. = 1640 ft/sec (ES: 33/SD: 11)
Remington 115 gr +P JHP Ave. Vel. = 1308 ft/sec (ES: 14.86/SD = 6.78)
Handload: 124 gr Hornady XTP(moly-coated)/6.0 gr Unique/IMI cases/Win SP Primer
LOA ~ 1.11" Ave. Vel. = 1308 ft/sec (ES: 29.24/SD = 11.78)
From the STI:
Winchester USA 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1207 ft/sec(ES: 102/SD: 38)
PMP 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1106 ft/sec (ES: 75/SD: 22)
Hirtenberger 100 gr JSP "FL" Ave. Vel = 1378 ft/sec (ES: 42/SD: 12)
Hornady 124 gr XTP Handload
6.0 gr Unique
WSP Primer
IMI Cases
LOA: 1.11" Ave. Vel = 1266 ft/sec (ES:92/SD: 30)
Speer 124 gr GDHP Handload
Same as above
LOA: 1.115" Ave. Vel = 1223 ft/sec (ES: 96/SD: 31)
Federal 124 gr Nyclad HP Ave. Vel = 1178 ft/sec (ES: 33/SD: 11)
Federal 115 gr JHP (9BP) Ave. Vel = 1196 ft/sec (ES: 34/SD: 11)
Winchester RA9TA 127 gr +P+ Ave. Vel = 1296 ft/sec (ES: 29/SD: 9)
Magtech 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1152 ft/sec (ES: 32/SD: 10)
Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ Ave. Vel = 1255 ft/sec (ES: 47/SD: 14)
Rainier 124 gr PRN Handload
6.9 gr Blue Dot
WSP Primer
Starline Cases
LOA: 1.155" Ave. Vel = 1071 ft/sec (ES: 96/SD: 29)
Rucker 122 gr Cast FP Handload
Same as Above
LOA: 1.075" Ave. Vel = 1140 ft/sec(ES: 66/SD: 22)
Glaser Silver 70 gr Ave. Vel = 1639 ft/sec (ES: 21/SD: 8!!!!)
As others have noted, each gun's a law unto itself as to what that particular pistol "likes" and this can seen very graphically in the way certain factory loads are very consistent in one pistol, but not the other. I was extremely surprised as how consistent and close the velocities for the 9mm Glaser Silver 70 gr pre-fragemented bullet were from both pistols.
Note also how the 124 gr XTP handload is very consistent in the FN, but not so in the STI. Certainly, dimensional differences no doubt affect such, but I suspect that the faster 1:10 twist in the FN bbl allows the load to build more pressure and more consistently burn powder than is the case in the STI's 1:16 twist.
I could sure be wrong, but it seems a possibility. In several cases, the FN produced higher velocities than the STI with the same load. I was surprised that in several cases, the standard Browning HP (4 21/32" bbl) produced velocities with a given load that were with about 25 ft/sec of the 6" guns. There was more difference with others.
I note also that Winchester's RA9TA 127 gr +P+ JHP is an accurate and consistent load in several pistols. If you can get your mitts on this LE-only ammo, it might be worth the effort.
For example:
From a Springfield Armory XD9 w/4.05" bbl:
Ave. Velocity: 1257 ft/sec (ES: 29/SD: 11)
From a standard Browning
Hi Power w/factory 4 21/32" bbl:
Ave. Velocity: 1269 ft/sec (ES: 31/SD: 11)
From STI Trojan w/6" bbl:
Ave. Velocity: 1296 ft/sec (ES: 29/SD: 9)
I've read that if bullets travel within the more-or-less accepted 50 ft/sec of each other, they're "accurate." I've shot enough of the handloaded rounds in my Hi Powers to know that the load groups very well in them. It also groups very well from the STI despite the greater standard deviation.
I also decided to shoot some 5-shot groups at 15 yards, using a rest. The same point of aim was used so that we could see differences in POI. Loads picked were the Hornady 124 gr XTP handload for which the pistol's sighted. I then picked the lowest-velocity 115 gr FMJ load, PMP. Hirtenberger's 100 gr JSP and Glaser's 70 gr +P rounds were used to be as different from the other two as possible. (Before someone complains, I was out of the 147 gr loads which I don't keep in any big supply. Sorry.)
Even with an average velocity difference of 160 ft/sec and 9 grains bullet weight, the 124 gr XTP @ 1266 ft/sec hits in almost the same spot as the 115 gr PMP ball @ 1106 ft/sec. The lighter-but-faster 100 gr Hirtenberger JSP at an average velocity of 1378 ft/sec hit only 0.84" lower than the significantly slower rounds mentioned above. The center of the Glaser's group was about 1.2" lower than the XTP or PMP Points-of-Impact.
All 4 groups were within a 1.86" diameter circle NOT counting the damned flyer at the bottom, which was my fault. Average velocities ranged from a low of 1106 ft/sec to a high velocity of 1639 ft/sec with bullets ranging from 70 to 124 grains.
It appears that at this commonly-used distance, our own human error will cause greater variations in group-size and POI than might different loads. Certainly, differences in separate loads' POIs will become larger as distance increases, but for many of us, there's not going to be enough difference to matter.
Just for grins, I also did some "scientific mud expansion tests" with some of the loads.
Here's Hirtenberger's 100 gr JSP...
Here are three Hornady 124 gr XTPs after impacting at about 1266 ft/sec...
Speer's 124 gr GDHPs after impacting at over 1200 ft/sec...
I will admit being disappointed in the wider-than-expected variations in speed with my favored handloads from the STI, but before "knowing" this, was getting extremely tight groups using either the Hornady or the Speer JHPs. Still, the loads produce decent, but not "super" velocities from the 6" pistols over the more common 4 to 5" bbls. To me, a very good reason to watch the standard deviation is in the case of a round operating at the lower end of the velocity envelope in which the bullet will expand. If it can deviate below the minimal required for expansion, one might want to consider a different load.
Anyway, some folks might find this of use...
Best.
