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6 Cylinder Cannon...Yea that's right...like the motor!!! haha

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Foster, Aug 24, 2004.

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  1. Foster

    Foster Member

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    Me and my cousin were sittin' around thinkin' this mornin' and we came up with a very farfetched, but completely capable, idea of creatin' a six-shot cannon made from a 240 cubic inch Ford inline six cylinder engine.
    This idea is only partially down on paper at the moment, but the block is 50% complete. We wanna know some outside opinions on what you guys think. Doable or just plain crazy. If you just think about it, an engine is made to contain explosions (ta-da!! similar in respect to a barrell). The only parts we'll be using the block, crank and modified pistons.
    Let's hear what you guys have to think....all opinions welcome and appreciated.

    -Foster
     
  2. Hand_Rifle_Guy

    Hand_Rifle_Guy Member

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    [Igor voice] I like the way this man thinks, hehehe!...

    Neat idea!

    I've heard of a Harmonica pistol before, but this is the first Harmonica cannon I've ever learned of.

    Whatchya gonna use for bores? What ammo? Volley or single-fire?

    And oh By The Way, welcome to The High Road, Foster! This qualifies as an auspicious almost-first post! I hope you like your internet discussion polite and civil, it's what we specialize in 'round here.

    Can we expect some pictures in the future? Gotta have pics to go with a Calliope Cannon! :D
     
  3. Foster

    Foster Member

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    Great minds think alike. It's gonna be volley-type setup. It will fire by the firin' order in a 240 engine. Six continuous shots, before you have to reload. Kinda like a muzzle-loadin' revolver. There will be pictures soon. We need someone with balistic experience to help determine the correct load and projectile weight so we don't blow ourselves up by over-chargin'. We wanna be safe about it, yet have a "blast". haha

    -Foster
     
  4. ScottsGT

    ScottsGT Member

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    Remember, those walls are kind of thin compaired to a canon. There's water jackets around them.
    You could try the old drag racers trick and pour wet concrete mix in the water jackets to fill them up.
     
  5. Foster

    Foster Member

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    ************************DISCLAIMER**************************


    Guess I better say this before it goes too far. Just for the record, some details will be undisclosed, that being, if these suckers are capable of mass production, then we, bein' me and my cousin, then we have all rights reserved to the patent. Thank you.

    -Foster
     
  6. Foster

    Foster Member

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    We were thinkin' more on the lines of lead or steel. Concrete is a good idea, but the jackets could possibly collapse as the concrete may be damaged from the recoil of this baby.
     
  7. Can'thavenuthingood

    Can'thavenuthingood Member

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    Sealing up a firing chamber would require some really good machine work. Then the barrels would have to be attached so as not to lose any pressure.

    Maybe machine a large long flat plate to take the place of the heads. Cut holes in plate. Attach barrels, which are a smaller diameter than chambers. Think I would prototype a spud gun first with PVC before working metal pieces into design.

    Seems like it would be easier just to fabricate from scratch. Alot less headache I'm sure.

    Vick
     
  8. esheato

    esheato Member

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    I shudder at the thought of a chain fire. :what:
     
  9. Foster

    Foster Member

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    I love that idea Vick. We were thinkin' of a way to replace the heads. Also some sort of exhaust, that way you don't have the giant smoke cloud in front of you. Somethin' like a set of headers the direct it away from the line of fire. But that's almost outta the question.
     
  10. Foster

    Foster Member

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    Can'thavenuthingood, I wouldn't have to attach the barrels. A cylinder is already partially sealed. They're two ends to a cylinder, one bein' sealed by the rings on the pistons and the other bein' closed by valves in a normal engine. The pistons are gonna be modified to stay in the down position, but for the crank to still turn freely without the piston doin' the regular punchin' motion. the other end, once free of the head, is just like a smooth-bore barrel. Therefore. Once the crank is modified into a rotating firing mechanism, then it will be complete.

    Come one, come all...opinions needed...as well as ballistics data. We don't wanna blow ourselves up here...
     
  11. Ukraine Train

    Ukraine Train Member

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    Hmm, not sure how you're going to execute this but fuel doesn't actually "explode" inside an engine, it burns rapidly (10-25m/s when atomized). If you accelerate this burn rate then you get detonation which results in engines dumping their guts through the block/oil pan, and even then you're not approaching the pressures of say smokeless powder. Cylinder walls are thin....
     
  12. Foster

    Foster Member

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    The thinness of the cylinder walls is a big problem we're facin'. I'm gonna get on the phone with a friend of mine that works at a machine shop to see what it would run us, the get a custom block milled. You have to admit that this is probably somethin' that no one's attempted before. We're still at the on-paper stage, so any ideas or opinions are welcomed. Once again, we still need ballistic expertise to help with the charge sizes.

    -Foster
     
  13. Can'thavenuthingood

    Can'thavenuthingood Member

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    You're gonna need some sort of barrel attached to get some length and utilize the pressure created, otherwise you'll have little more than flatulence, all noise and no boost. Which is why a narrow barrel, to use the pressure created more efficiently. From a large bore (cylinder) to a smaller bore (barrel or tube) like on a brake system.

    Think the difference between a snubnose .357 and a .357 lever action rifle. There is alot more power applied to the projectile with added length to the barrel for distance.

    What size is the bore/bullet to be fired?
    What's it weigh?
    What are you using for powder/ignition?

    Make a prototype with PVC pipe. An automotive engine was never designed for gunpowder to be used in the combustion chamber. I think ballastics are going to be a trial and error proposition for you, and then not many errors. Remember stress's on metal are cumulative, they just stack up and some day the metal say's "I'm tired" and gives up the ghost as in cracks and or total failure. It could be catastrophic.

    Make sure you have film rolling for each test. There is a thin line between Einstein and Darwin.

    Start with potatoes,
    Vick
     
  14. Foster

    Foster Member

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    Do take notice that I'm not tryin' to earn myself a "Darwin Award" here. Barrels are a must. We just need somethin' that will be fuctional, but not weight 400+lbs. As for bore size, charge weight and ignition system, this is why there is a need for someone with ballistic expertise. Like I said earlier, we're gonna try to do this as safe as possible and try to come back unharmed. This is NOT by any means a plea for attention, just somethin' a couple of good 'ole boys with a spare engine decided to do. Keep the opinions flowin' guys.

    -Foster
     
  15. Foster

    Foster Member

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    Ohh, and we will most definately start small with PVC designs. If and when the day approaches for the "big bang", it will be thoroughly planned out with the utmost attention to detail and "SAFETY". And for any younger kids who read this, "PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE".
     
  16. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Wet Blanket alert!

    I don't wanna rain on your parade but it's a pretty good bet that what you are putting together would be classified by the ATF and our buddy Agent Schmukatelli as a "Destructive Device".

    I don't know if you can get permission to build what you envision or not (sad that we even have to ask) but you should at the very least make a call to the boys in F-Troop lest you find yourself with a new federally subsidized 6' by 10' home and a not so new snaggly toothed bride named Bubba!

    Just a thought mind you - no pressure...
     
  17. Foster

    Foster Member

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    All the legal actions will be takin' care of. I don't plan on servin' time anytime soon or ever. This is also very well thought out mind you.
     
  18. Can'thavenuthingood

    Can'thavenuthingood Member

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  19. cookhj

    cookhj Member

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    as long as it's a black powder cannon, he will be ok. they're perfectly legal.
     
  20. pauli

    pauli Member

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    i think it also has to be muzzle loading...

    anyway, if you're doing something like this, i'd get the biggest straight six diesel you can find. they *are* built for exploding mixture, though you'll still want to reinforce it.

    if you stick with the 240... just make sure the head finds a good home on top of a 300!
     
  21. IRONFIST

    IRONFIST Member

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    I am positive that you have already thought about making sure to heat your block completely if you are going to reinforce the water jackets with molten lead. I like your ideas, practical or not, because at least you are trying to invent something interesting and not just sleepwalking thru life like so many others. Good luck to you Sir, and be careful!
     
  22. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    You could use a pan 6 and that way you could shoot at the enemy even if the attack was from two directions. Of course, you might just shoot your own soldiers, so maybe that is not a good idea.

    BTW, Foster, if we don't hear from you and you cousin, do we assume that you loaded up each cylinder with a pound of Bullseye and touched 'em off?

    Jim
     
  23. Shanghai McCoy

    Shanghai McCoy Member

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    This actually is an idea that Leonardo DaVinci had for a volley cannon.similar weapons were also used during the War between the States.As long as you use black powder you should be ok.DON'T let some yabbo talk you into using smokless powder tho....
     
  24. Hand_Rifle_Guy

    Hand_Rifle_Guy Member

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    Coupla ideas, if'n yer innerested...

    Jim, yer scarin' me, here.:uhoh: Want a six-shot cannon, not a six-shot grenade! ;)

    Foster, the pvc/abs thing might be worth looking at in closer detail. Have you thought about a gas gun? There's LOTS of info/supplies around on the net to support spud-gunning, and it's eminently legal. I've read about some folks achieving great things with spud-gun technology and tin cans fulla concrete. You can order rifled barrels for pretty cheap, up to 4" diameter. Just a direction you can go, that's cheap 'n easy to implement.

    If you've got access to a big-enough lathe, you could turn-down the outside of, say, 18"-24"-long pieces of hot-rolled 1/2"-wall steel tubing of appropriate diameter to slip-fit into the bores. A stepped, fitted plug with a machined-in chamber that you could pre-load with a powder charge, slip-fit into the end of a given bore, and set on top of the block in some sort of carrier rig to position it to drop into the bore for firing at the bottom as you turn the crank. Dunno what you'd use for ammo. Canned concrete comes to mind again. This'd be a lot like a six-shot repeating mortar-kinda set-up. The carrier could be a cage-ish arrangement made outta welded-up strip stock, say.

    If you want it more like a cannonesque sort of a thing, you'd need longer bores, which'd get expensive fast at big-bore size. You could make transitional "breeches" on the ends to fit, say, 2" tubing to some sorta cylinder-size pluggish thing. Same removable chamber/breech idea, but with a smaller bore size. 2" bores work good with greased tennis balls filled with sand or lead shot.

    Hmmm. Not getting any holy inspirations about ignition systems. I'll have to think about it.
     
  25. Foster

    Foster Member

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    Ohh man, you guys are bein' a big help. For the time bein', it is to go as a muzzle-loadin', black-powder-esque cannon, but we're tryin' to find a way to slice the bottom of the block to make it somewhat like a modern-type cannon. That way, instead of muzzle-loadin', we can flip up the block, open the bottom, so the crank swings away, load the charge, close it up and fire away.

    As for ignition systems, we have a very good grasp on what we're doin', but the details of this won't be realeased on the forums. Sorry.

    Ohh and Jim, you don't have to worry about that pound of Bullseye, all barrels arent firin' at 1 time. It will actually follow the firin' order of the block. If they fired all at once, then the block would just implode, but we can fire at will, that way we don't stress the engine block too much. The water jackets are goin' to be filled. I believe we're gonna use lead or cheap angle iron. As for the PVC/ABS, I have a friend that is gonna help me with that. It helps havin' friends with access to CNC mills. haha

    We're thinkin' of mountin' this thing in the back of an old truck, so we have to use the inline model. If it was an opposed, or v-type engine, then we'd just end up blowin' the sides of the truck apart and we don't want that.

    Also any donations of used blocks is welcome!
     
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