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642 Club Part Deux

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Wax Bullets

After purchasing my 642-2 in Nov. 07 I started practicing about two times a week at the range.
You can imagine the cost of ammo when you practice that much. So in order to bring the cost
down I started reloading and that cut my cost by more than half.

Since most of my practice is point shooting, at 10 yards and less, it was still a lot of money to
throw down range. At home I use the CT laser and that works well, but I need a little more
room for getting off the "X".

Then I came across a link that introduced me to wax bullets:
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/waxbullet.html
I immediately fixed up 50 cartridges with homemade wax bullets, went out to the back yard
and discovered a cheap and very effective way to practice point shooting. If you reload your
own ammo, wax bullets are are an alternative to expensive ammo and save on gas money by
not having to drive to the range. You don't really have to be a reloader to create your own wax
bullets. The only thing necessary is a hand loader for inserting the primers into the cartridge.
Everything else can be done with hand tools that you probably already have in your tool box.

The sound of a wax bullet being fired is no louder than a cap pistol and you can practice in your
garage if your neighbors live too close for shooting outside. If you shoot indoors, make sure you
have adequate ventilation. Because there is no recoil, your shots will hit low but you can compensate
for this with two targets, one for your sight picture, the other for actual target hits. I was very
surprised at how accurate these wax bullets are.

BE CAREFUL. These wax bullets can penetrate 1/2" wallboard at close range.

Gary C
 
I need some feedback here. I've read every post in this thread over the last few days and my previous interest in the 642 w/CT grips is getting to the boiling point!

My only concern at this point is cleaning the pistol. I've read about the hazards of damaging the finish on the frame using ammonia based solvents. I don't know which ones these may be but I get the idea that Hoppe's #9 may be one of them. What others? I see Hoppe's Elite mentioned a lot but looking a the bottle it appears to be an oil, not a solvent.

Are you guys removing the CT grips each time you clean? Any concerns here?

So, what are you guys using to clean and lube. I would be shooting a lot of lead reloads, light loads of course, so I have to figure some way to clean.

My other concern is after checking the fixed sights, my poor eyesight can't see anything without my reading glasses. Definitely no front post! I think this could be overcome with learning to point shoot, the CT laser, and realizing that use of this pistol in emergency situation would be at ranges less than 10 feet. My only other course would be a Glock 23 with sights I can see.

Thanks in advance for all the info provided through your experience in this thread.

Jerry
 
dryfly: I own four j-frames--a M&P340, 640, 442 and an M60-3"

As for cleaning--I typically use GunScrubber (original formulation), CLP, and the Hoppe's Elite products to clean any of these guns. The 442 is similar in its finish to the 642, and on that model I do stay with the Elite products and CLP. Note that there are at least two Elite products--a cleaner and a bore gel.

I shoot lead bullets almost exclusively, and I find I can get good lead removal by using the Elite Bore Gel, then scrubbing the bore (after waiting at least 5 minutes) with a Chore Boy copper patch over a stiff nylon bore brush. This technique also works fine on the chambers, and I even use a low-speed drill with the Chore Boy / brush combo to really scrub them up from the 38/357 crud. (You wouldn't have this problem on a 642, but there is still crud buildup). Be sure to get Chore Boy brand; other knockoffs have been known to be steel mesh that is copper-plated, and will scratch the bore.

I have CT-grips on all three of the 2" barrels. Initially I did NOT remove the CT grips, and I am a "if some is good more is better" kind of solvent user. At one point I did get solvent on the CT lens on the 640, and it was a PITA to remove. Now I am just careful when I spray or brush--I keep a finger over the lens port, and that has prevented further occlusion.

As for using CT lasers--with my aging eyes, they are clearly the solution. 2" J-frames are accurate--with the right (re)load, any of them can shoot 1"-1&1/4" groups at 10 yards, even at 15 yards--and that has recently been done heads up, point-shooting from the hip, using the laser.

Lasers are not a complete solution, but they clearly will work for the self-defense purposes of these revolvers.

Personally, I would recommend the DAO versions for self-defense, and I will also mention that, if cost is not a factor, consider the M&P340 scandium version as well. S&W does charge a premium for the magnum frame, over and above the scandium materials, but the 340 is noticably superior in fit and finish. Somewhere in this thread or in the M&P 340 thread, mention is made of the M&P340CT version for under $700.00, I believe--check it out if that's a possible variant for you.

Finally, if you are planning to shoot lead reloads, see threads in the Reloading forum about "replica reloads" for the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 38+P 135-gr. factory round. Searching with Google in the forum should bring these up. A group of us have worked on those, on reloads to replicate the GDSB 135-gr. 357 Magnum round, and we're now working on the "FBI Loads"--e.g., a 158-gr LSWC-HP cartridge.

Jim H.
 
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Jim, the cheapest I've seen the M&P340ct was around $840. Price is not a big deal but I don't need .357 capabilities and the 642 would work well for what I'm going to use it for.

How about Shooter's Choice MC#7 bore cleaner? If not, I'll just pick up the Elite gel and finish with CLP.

I have never heard of the Chore Boy copper patch. Where do you get them?

I would be interested in the loads but basically I'm interested in low power WC and SWC for practice. I have heard controversy on carrying reloads for self defense.
 
1. I haven't tried the MC#7 bore cleaner--I simply went with what S&W recommended on the M&P 340.

2. "Chore Boy" is a brand name for a pot scrubber found in grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. (This is the "original brand", but grocery stores around here have started carrying a Chinese knock-off that is not pure copper.) The use I described reduces the cost of buying a Lewis Lead Remover, and it greatly reduces the effort of removing lead in the bore. The Chore Boy mesh does not work quite as well as the Lewis Lead Remover, but is much cheaper.

As for the replica reloads--well, that's the point of reloading, to develop a cheaper practice round. Once you get the replication sorted out, it's easy to back up the load. I prefer to load practice rounds that are similar in POA and subjective recoil, myself. Since a great number of lightweight revolver carriers favor the 38+P 135-gr PD round, I worked on developing that kind of reload. Personally, I carry the factory rounds--but 10 cents a round or so for practice with a round that will give me the same feel as the factory round (or less if I need to acclimate) simply makes sense to me.

So, dig into this idea as you wish.

Jim H.
 
I've been using Hoppe's Elite foam cleaner, its seems to work really well, I might have to try the Gel, Im due for another bottle of the Hoppe's, so far I've just used a boresnake and a brush in the cylinder. I don't think I've ever been more excited about a gun then this little 642, I got to shoot another 10 rounds today and it just gets better and better, me and the 642's action.
 
Good evening everyone. It's been a couple of weeks since I've checked in (actively, not passively as I monitor the thread a couple of times a day). I'll be heading to the range tomorrow to run some downrange, and will be taking WWB FMJ range ammo, Speer GD +p 135gr., and some Rem JHP +p as well just to compare and contrast.

I'm still waiting for the CHL process to finish here in Texas, so I don't yet have my license. I've been trying to get used to it being in the pocket while around the house in a Nemesis. Robert Mika told me he's making my round cut this weekend and shipping Monday, so I'll get used to that one as well.

Question: I'm considering some dark gray wood grips for the 642. I've found the factory Uncle Mikes tend to grab a little, and that silver backstrap on the grip is clearly visible (to me anyway). I think something darker would put MY mind at ease a little. I don't have a problem with recoil, so the Hogue rubber grips aren't necessary. Frankly, I think the wood will look great as well, and age with more character. What say you guys and gals?
 
Hogue Nylon Monogrips

I installed the nylon monogrips. I realy like the way they feel. They natural put the snubbie in line with the sights and give my pinky a place to be. The uncle mikes made me feel like I had to point the muzzle down to far to get the sight picture.

(+) are nylon so they don't grip your pocket
(+) fill your hand and give your pinky a place to be
(+) seems to provide a more naturally aquired sight picture
(-) slightly bigger grip and did seem to print more in my #3 blackhawk pocket holster.

100 rounds of +p 125 grain JHP remington shot today with the monogrips and i love them. No hand soreness. Recoil was controlled easier also.

So... now toget a hold of some hogue bantam grips and see how they compare to "uncle mikes" boot grips. They look pretty much the same to me.
 
I have a Hogue mono's and Bantams, I like the feel of both of them, but since I pocket carry im using the Bantams but it does leave the backstrap exposed which hasn't been a problem for myself. Im actually amazed at how comfortable the Bantams are, so I will be looking into a 640 or possibly a 442 to go with my Mono grip :evil:
 
Hey Gary, great link on the wax bullets. Im definitely going to try that out. I had been looking into wax bullets b4 and was actually going to purchase the wax online. But using paraffin sounds great.

Can anybody provide a list of the materials needed IOT not only load wax bullets. But also load your own ammo. If you have links to websites showing pics or places to buy, it would be greatly appreciated.

NY update. Everythings is going great so far. Spending time with the family. Gonna take the little man to go see the Statue of Liberty today as well as the WTC site among other places. My dad also mentioned to my uncle about my concealed carry and they asked me why I did so. We then got into a long conversation and by the end of it Ive not only convinced my uncles, and my cousins to get a license. Theyre also interested in getting an x42. They loved how light and easily concealable it was.

You all take care and have a good weekend. This forum is addicting. Im supposed to be on vacation but I find myself constantly coming back to see what new ideas and/or comments are being posted.
 
Wax Bullets

I've had a little experience shooting wax bullets. The sportsmen's club I belong to has recently started a fast draw competition as an outgrowth of the cowboy action competition. Since I'm on the club's pistol committee, I get involved to some extent in all of these.

Anyway, the fast draw competitors shoot wax bullets from their single action revolvers. At our club, 45 Long Colt and .38 special are the more popular calibers. The guy who started the fast draw league has contacts with local people who make wax bullets in various sizes. He also knows someone who modifies empty cartridge cases so they take #209 shotshell primers instead of the normal small or large pistol primers. With these modified cases, the shotshell primers are changeable by hand. No decapper or other tool is needed.

To use the cases, primers and wax bullets, you seat the wax bullet by just pushing the empty case down over the wax bullet laying on a table top. (A little WD40 sprayed on the bullets helps them go in the case easier.) You typically load up a bunch of the modified cases with wax bullets ahead of time. When you're ready to shoot, you take one of the cases (with wax bullet in place) and hold it primer hole up. You just use your fingers to drop the shotshell primer in the modifed primer hole and then place the cartridge in the cylinder keeping the case with the primer up. (The only thing holding the primer in place is gravity and maybe a very slight press fit.) When you've loaded the cylinder with all the cartridges, you gently close it and the primers will stay in place.

After shooting, you open the cylinder and eject the cases. Most of the expended primers will just fall out, a straightened paper clip or another piece of wire may be useful if one of the primers fit a little tighter.

NOTE: Exercise all the usual precautions when handling the primers and shooting the wax bullets - eye and ear protection, don't point the muzzle of the gun at anything you don't want damaged. The primers are sensitive to impact, excessive heat and static electricity.

The wax bullets, propelled by the shotshell primers have a lot of power. At medium range they leave a painful red mark. At close range they can cause serious injury or in extreme cases - death.

I've never actually shot wax bullets through my X42s but i've shot a few hundred through Ruger Vaqueros.
 
Converting some brass to take the shotgun primers is quite simple. Many years ago I converted a couple of pieces of 22 Hornet brass to take those primers. I did this to shoot pellets out of my 10 inch barreled Contender. :D

I don't remember the drill size, I just measured the primer and found a drill size to match. A common drill size IIRC. You can get a nice finger press fit for the primers.

allan
 
I have had my 642 for about 8 months, but this is my first post. I am just starting to enjoy shooting it, as I am getting more acurate with it. Here is a pic with the Hogue Lamo Camo
 

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Range

Well since warren is talking about range reports I thought I would put my 2 cents in.

125 grain +p ammo, pocket carry #3 blackhawk holster, gun 442 .38 spl +p

3 targets shooting tactical at 25 feet: Center mass, center mass, center mass, head shot, head shot. Using IDPA targets.

Shot an inch low on the first center mass shot. Hit all the others spot on for a time of 7.5 secs.

One thing i did that surprised me was.... I started with my hands down at my side and on the starting buzzer I actually missed my pocket when trying to draw. This was only practice. Its a lot different when you are casually reaching in and drawing vs an under stress draw. I missed my pocket!! The only stress I had was because I was being timed and wanted to do it as fast as possible. God help me if I am realy under stress like getting held up.

I think its just something all of us should think about. We are carrying whcih makes us feel safer but... there is a lot that has to happen before an actual shot goes off. I am not sure if I am actaully saying all this right. Just want people to know that they should practice and just becasue we have a gun doesn't mean its easy to find the gun, draw, aim and pull the trigger and actually hit what you are aiming at.

Being a conceal carry person makes me feel responsible to know what the hell I am doing and know how to shoot the gun I am carrying. I am actually going to try an IDPA match for the first time in Findlay Ohio at the end of April to improve my shooting.

Sorry to go on for ever lecturing. Damn I am getting chatty!

Thanks,

Joe Stokes
 
Two tone 642 and 442

I was cleaning my little mules and decided to do a two tone thing.
I wasn't sure if I liked the looks, so I put them back to stock.
I don't know if anyone has done this yet, but I thought you might find the "look" interesting.

IMG_3285.jpg

IMG_3286.jpg
 
Might have timing issues with that swap - the cylinders are fitted to the particular gun!
 
RANGE REPORT

I went to my local indoor range today to practice with my new 642 and to qualify with it for my CCW permit.

The results were mixed.

I had two types of ammo with me, WWB 130 FMJ truncated cones, and Rem 125 SJHP both were rated as +P.

The WWB was less abusive to my hand but was not as accurate as the Rem but that is not saying much as I was all over the target, set at 21 feet, with both types.

Most of this would be my rookie handling of the snub, but some of the flyers were inexplicable. It would not have been possible to walk the muzzle that far off during the triggering.

So I move it in to seven feet and was still not punching the X. It persisted in firing high and right.

I cured the 'high' part easy enough by finally realizing that only the very tip-top of the front sight should be in the groove. But the right-shooting continued.

After 100 rounds of practice I decided to try the qualification target. I was not optimistic. You have to score 26/30 on a rather smallish rectangle target at 21 feet.

well, I managed to go 30/30 with 23 in the X or 10 rings but all the hits were scattered. This is unlike when I qualled with my SiGP220 or my MTN gun in .45 Colt both those targets had their Xs chewed out.

I've never shot so poorly with a gun I own. More practice is required as will shooting from a rest to see just what it can shoot.

Other reflections.

The stock stocks have got to go. I'll be slapping some Houges on there right quick.

I didn't expect the recoil of the gun to remove a patch of skin on my thumb but it did. Maybe new grips and a different grip by me will help that out.

Is there some way to ensure more positive extraction of the empties? Even a hard slap on the rod would leave a couple of hangers almost every time.

After shooting this 150 times I'm amazed that people will fire full-house .357s out of lighter guns.

I'm not sure if I ever got used to stopping at 5 shots.
 
I think the 642 Club is great in the sense there's all this info but it is overwhelmingly impracticable to have to read through all these posts. It seems that when I do searches re the 642 or 442 I'll have to specify 'posts' only, otherwise I'm just referred to the entire thread and that's a PITA! Any other suggestions other than to just 'get lost'? :uhoh:
 
Brent,

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you are using the general THR search engine to look for specific information in this thread, but getting information from all threads in revolvers about x42. (Correct me if I'm wrong there.)

If so, don't search the entire forum for info in this thread, but search this thread specifically.

To do that, look at the top of this page (and almost all other THR pages) for "Search this thread"; enter keywords (e.g., "grips" or "cleaning" or "point shooting" or whatever. That should narrow down your search for specific info.

Nem
 
nc76 - Welcome to the 642 Clubhouse. Come on in and make yourself at home.

...Any other suggestions other than to just 'get lost'?...
Click to expand...

brentfoto - Now, you know we would never suggest you "get lost", here's my take on this. You are correct about the amount of information available in part 1 and 2, to my knowledge this is the premier database for the X42 available anywhere and it can seem overwhelming at first glance. First, it really is best to read the entire thread (both parts) and it goes faster than you might think. You obviously won't recall all the details but it will give you a good feel for what's here and kinda where it's at. I have read through several times and I pickup on new info each time I do.

When you search are you using the "search this thread" function as opposed to the general search? It works much better to search within the thread, and to be as specific as possible. Many times I can recall a phrase from a post and that will take me right to it. Remember that since the "Part Deux" change you now have two searches to make for most queries.

If this doesn't work for you, just ask the question here, there are close to 750 knowledgeable folks here now and someone will have an answer for you or know where to find it. As is to be expected with this volume of info and the continuously growing membership, there is some duplication and we do "reinvent the wheel" from time to time, but thats ok and sometimes we come up with a better "wheel" in the process.

PS - It would appear that Sir Nem has stole my thunder :D
 
hey, jt1 and Nematocyst-

I just learned something about searching within a thread itself from both of you. Was not aware of that function within a thread. duh.
Now I see the button for it! Geeezzz, what's the matter with me???

I'll try it! Thanks a lot for the info!

If I'm not already on your list as a 'Club' member, would you please accept me within the club as I am new owner of a 442?
 
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