Pat Riot
Contributing Member
So how exactly do you understate something that has never happened?
The point of "well documented" was if it is a design flaw then you should be able to create a specific set of circumstances that cause it to fail reliably. No one has been able to identify the conditions under which you can predict a lock failure with any reliability. It's a mechanical device and there will no doubt be occasional failures and bad parts but the design is not flawed or we would have one or more well document failure modes.I’m not really big on the lock, but I don’t care much about it either way. The main thing I want to say I have personally had hundreds, maybe thousands, of malfunctions with handguns in my life, of those zero have been documented.
The point is just because it’s not well documented doesn’t mean it’s not a thing that happens.
Also I don’t think I know anyone personally that’s had a lock malfunction, at least that they’ve told me about, so I’m not inclined to believe it’s a big deal.
personally I think their are two groups, those that over state lock malfunctions, and those that understate them.
This is based on zero data, frankly it’s based more on my knowledge and observations of human behavior than anything else.
First the number of well document cases of unmolested S&W revolvers having the lock malfunction could be counted without taking one's shoes off.
Second, removing the lock is easy and reversible to restore it to factory condition.
I don't seek out the lock but if I found a S&W configure exactly how I wanted it and it had the lock I would still buy it.
Ditto...Bought a 686 and a 586 in the last year. Nice trigger and accurate as hell right out of the box. The lock does not bother me and mim has come along way since it's inception. I'm a 2A backer big time but times are changing whether we like it or not.
The same can be said of polymer!Yes, MIM has come a very long way. The firearms industry as a whole was a very early adopter of the tech and thus the firearms customers suffered through some of the early growing pains of both the technology and the engineers learning to use the fledgling technology. That hurt MIM's perception with a whole generation of firearms owners. But at this point MIM technology and the use of the MIM technology is rapidly approaching a mature tech. So much so that S&W has made barrels for the 380 Shield from MIM with no post sintering machining, complete net shape.
I won’t buy a Smith & Wesson with the lock.
There have been instances of it failing, I don’t like the way it looks and it’s just a reminder of how they caved to the government.
I do own several pre-locks though.
So how exactly do you understate something that has never happened?
I was talking about MY experience. Besides, I do not exaggerate one way or the other in regards to my guns like a lot of folks.
I've never needed a gun for self defense either, but that doesn't mean I don't carry.
Folks that are posting in favor of the lock, are you saying given the choice you would opt for the lock?
You like this feature? If so, why? Any pro-lockers (heh) actually use the key option? I can detail why I don't like, need, or want it, and I can find many reports (and some documented from gun writers) of the locks failing. Its rare, but it happens. High round counts powerful loads, and lighter frames seem to be factors. Additionally, manipulation of the lock on/off frequently seems to loosen it up and increase the chance of it activating. Also heard of harsh impact activating it. A likely scenario in street self defense.
I'm listing these so folks using lock models for self defense are aware.
I wish there was an option on every model to get it without the lock. I want to eliminate a possible point of failure that offers me nothing in return.
(that said, a newer "lock" model does live in my night stand. It runs well and if i have to use it its replacable ...well... In normal times. Even so I think it sucks, it CAN fail, and imo serves no earthly purpose)
The lock is never going away while the current company owns S&W. The company that invented that lock bought S&W some years ago. The lock is here to stay at least until new ownership takes over S&W.
This is why I have no interest in new S&Ws, and can't understand why someone would use a lock gun for SD.
But very few complain about the fact that nearly all Dan Wesson sand Korth revolvers use two peice barrels...For some reason the lock bothers me less than the two piece barrel that comes on revolver models that used to have one piece barrels.
Chance for failure is pretty slim.