6mm Arc brass

[Warpiece]

It would seem that my chamber is a little short. At 2.24, the bullet is jammed in the lands, which i didn't discover until i was a few shots away from being done with the 50 rounds i was fire forming. I needed to clear the chamber, out came an empty unfired case, and powder all in the action. I thought I was going to have to mortar it out, but it let go right before I gave up

I had one case rupture from the shoulder, down the side. I imagine the chamber pressures are a bit high since the bullet was jammed in the barrel at every shot. I think that case had a dent in the shoulder, not certain.

I was doing a load work up before the fire forming, I was using the same oal. The info is probably useless, but I'll post it. Maybe it'll show something interesting when I do the work up properly. It looks like my oal with this bullet maxes out at 2.17, using the length gage. That seems a little short. My hornady data is calling for 2.18 with this bullet.

I ended up with a labradar, the files are a bit of a pain to sort through. Don't get me wrong, I love all the data, it's just kinda messy the way it handles it.

I'll add some pictures of the cases, get some length measurements and add that with the data a little later

 

[USBP379]

Well only three split when fireformed is a good ratio. So did you anneal them? That would help prevent split necks. Or ateast I have found out it helps me when reforming brass.

No annealing. It would probably help.

I have wondered about the Giraud anneal machine but will probably go with an Annealeez. Half the cost and I probably won't really use it all that much.

 

[Blue68f100]

No annealing. It would probably help.

I have wondered about the Giraud anneal machine but will probably go with an Annealeez. Half the cost and I probably won't really use it all that much.

This is the machine I have. The main reason was that you don't need a feeder. You stack the brass and it walks through them. I have the plates to do most any caliber I choose. You have the option of single or double torch. 1 torch is all you need. Adding 2 would means you will cut your time down to 1/2, due to a higher speed.

 

[USBP379]

This is the machine I have. The main reason was that you don't need a feeder. You stack the brass and it walks through them. I have the plates to do most any caliber I choose. You have the option of single or double torch. 1 torch is all you need. Adding 2 would means you will cut your time down to 1/2, due to a higher speed.

Actually, in poking around online, I see an interesting unit from Sassy Brass. It uses a rotary wheel not unlike the Bench Source. The nice thing is he also sells a Dillon (also Hornady) case feeder adapter.

https://www.sassybrass.com/

 

[USBP379]

Decided to save money and get a more basic machine. I ordered this one:

https://www.epintegrations.com/

 

[Cypress]

As far as annealing on the cheap goes. I have had good success with using nothing but a propane torch and a sink full of water. I tested a bit but i held the case bodies in my bare fingers to make certain they didn’t get hot then rotated the necks and shoulder in front of the flame before quenching. Definitely made life easier making the brass and got many loads from it. YMMV.

 

[USBP379]

I had initially been looking at fairly pricey annealers like the MRB, Bench Source and Giraud. Nice units I'm sure but probably not worth the money just for converting some AK brass into ARC.

 

[USBP379]

I bought a few hundred more pieces of AK brass off gunbroker.com. They arrived earlier in the week. I sized and loaded 50 of them yesterday and shot them today.

It was somewhat of an exercise in frustration. I had about a dozen that would not chamber. It could be these need pulled and trimmed or it could be the bases on these cases are excessively swollen from being shot in some sloppy chambered AK. I'll pull these bad ones tomorrow and see if I can figure out what the problem is.

In any case, I have pretty close to 200 pieces of fired and formed brass now. I'll get them all sized, cleaned and trimmed so they are ready to anneal.

 

[USBP379]

This is the machine I have. The main reason was that you don't need a feeder. You stack the brass and it walks through them. I have the plates to do most any caliber I choose. You have the option of single or double torch. 1 torch is all you need. Adding 2 would means you will cut your time down to 1/2, due to a higher speed.

How many cases can you stack in the hopper? Is it reliable when full?

 

[Blue68f100]

How many cases can you stack in the hopper? Is it reliable when full?

I don't count them but it over 300 223R if I recall. May be closer to 500. I don't know if Giraud states on how web site or not. With the machine annealing one every 6-7 sec it goes through them fast.

 

[USBP379]

I don't count them but it over 300 223R if I recall. May be closer to 500. I don't know if Giraud states on how web site or not. With the machine annealing one every 6-7 sec it goes through them fast.

I ask because some owners/reviewers have said that the cases will not feed reliably if the hopper is fully filled.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have not had that problem at all. I have had mine filled to the brim and still adding as it process.

 

[USBP379]

It was somewhat of an exercise in frustration. I had about a dozen that would not chamber. It could be these need pulled and trimmed or it could be the bases on these cases are excessively swollen from being shot in some sloppy chambered AK. I'll pull these bad ones tomorrow and see if I can figure out what the problem is.

I pulled the ammo that wouldn't chamber. All the cases were 1.485-1.490" so I don't think case length was the issue. I am fairly certain it is the oversized base area from being fired in an AK.

Some of the other AK brass that ended up with a substantial belt did chamber and fire but these few won't. No biggie as I will use them for setting up my annealer when it arrives.

 

[Warpiece]

May just be a little harder than the others, didn't push the shoulder back enough. Consider resizing them again after you anneal

 

[USBP379]

May just be a little harder than the others, didn't push the shoulder back enough. Consider resizing them again after you anneal

Yes I wondered about that. I'll see what happens after anneal.

On a related note the local ACE Hardware has recently received a good amount of Hornady Match and Black. In fact it is pretty much the only ammo they have in stock.

 

[USBP379]

 

[USBP379]

EP Intergrations annealer out for delivery today. I'll update with annealing results ASAP.

 

[USBP379]

Annealer received, set up and used. Overall, a pretty simple affair. Not the fastest process in the world but should be tolerable in batches of 100 pieces.

I have annealed some of my fire formed cases to see how they load and shoot. I've also annealed a handful of 7.62x39 to see if they are easier to convert and load. Hopefully annealing before forming will keep split necks to a minimum.

I did anneal and resize the handful of cases that wouldn't chamber before. Annealing and resizing really didn't seem to make any difference. No biggie. These cases will be my "setup" brass for the annealer.

 

[Warpiece]

Are the 7.62x39 you're going to anneal previously fired or new brass? I held off on annealing till after running through the die, starline annealed them before I sized. I was hoping by doing it after sizing, it would better prepare the brass for all the stress of ballooning out in the chamber. I did find a second case that had ruptured from the original group I did. I'm not sure how many I should expect to not make it past the first firing. I'm preparing another batch of the starline, over 100, this time I didn't have a single case buckle going through the die. I'm hoping the 2 that ruptured just weren't annealed enough, it was my first time annealing brass cases, had a few hiccups in the beginning with that as well.

I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but having the bullets jammed in the bore probably didn't help, I ran the seater in on the remaining rounds. I was worried something was wrong with my barrel having such a short throat, checked the SAAMI drawings, matches up really well with what I measured. Apparently we have to be pretty cautious with some bullet profiles. I checked the 105gr and 108gr I had, I can seat them both to magazine length with no issue, but the 100gr has to kept pretty short. Very unexpected!

 

[Blue68f100]

Always assume every bullet type/weight is different. I check for max OAL for all my guns when I get a new bullet in. It's not uncommon to have to reduce my OAL as much as 0.040". With min spec chambers that are tight you take nothing for granted. A lot if time it requires a new load workup.

 

[USBP379]

Are the 7.62x39 you're going to anneal previously fired or new brass? I held off on annealing till after running through the die, starline annealed them before I sized. I was hoping by doing it after sizing, it would better prepare the brass for all the stress of ballooning out in the chamber. I did find a second case that had ruptured from the original group I did. I'm not sure how many I should expect to not make it past the first firing. I'm preparing another batch of the starline, over 100, this time I didn't have a single case buckle going through the die. I'm hoping the 2 that ruptured just weren't annealed enough, it was my first time annealing brass cases, had a few hiccups in the beginning with that as well.

I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but having the bullets jammed in the bore probably didn't help, I ran the seater in on the remaining rounds. I was worried something was wrong with my barrel having such a short throat, checked the SAAMI drawings, matches up really well with what I measured. Apparently we have to be pretty cautious with some bullet profiles. I checked the 105gr and 108gr I had, I can seat them both to magazine length with no issue, but the 100gr has to kept pretty short. Very unexpected!

View attachment 1001203 View attachment 1001206

The cases I've previously fire formed are used/mixed head stamp brass. I do have some new Starline but haven't really done anything with it yet.

I did not anneal any cases prior to fire forming. And now the few cases I've annealed prior to sizing and loading I haven't fired yet. I'm hoping the initial anneal will help with cracking. I guess I'll find out soon enough...

Regarding bullets and seating depth; I have some 95gr flat base hunting bullets that won't chamber when loaded to 2.26. I have to seat them to something like 2.19" or 2.2" to get them to work.

 

[USBP379]

My 100 pieces of new Starline brass (paid too much off gunbroker.com) arrived a bit earlier than expected.

I annealed these last night and then went about resizing them. I did resize a few directly from 7.62 to 6 ARC but the process seems smoother overall by sizing first to 6.5 Grendel and then to ARC.

I didn't really notice any difference in the amount of force needed to resize the brass but I'm happy to report that I didn't crush any. As with my previous experience sizing range pick-up brass, I see that overall length varies quite a bit with most cases ending up somewhere near 1.51". Today I'll trim to 1.49" and load for fire forming.

I suppose best practice is to anneal once again after firing to make sure the newly-formed neck and shoulder area isn't overworked.

Lots of work. It would no doubt be much simpler to convert 6.5 Grendel brass or buy and shoot some factory 6 ARC ammo to have brass with proper headstamp... But where's the fun in that?

 

[USBP379]

I should post a few thoughts on the EP Integrations annealer, I guess.

The machine seems to work okay and is relatively simple to set up and get running. I did have to fiddle with the spacing plate but I think I've got it set now. What was occasionally happening is cases would fall into the drum and sort of bounce off the U bolt stop/spacer and then fall into the catch pan without being heated. Setting the spacer plate back a bit so more of the case body sits inside the rotating drum seems to have stopped cases from falling out. Now my concern is occasionally dropping a case or missing the little ramp and having them end up in the catch pan. Admittedly this is more a hand-eye coordination problem rather than a design flaw.

I have tried the glow method but ended up getting some Tempilaq off Amazon. I imagine the glow method is fine but I think the Tempilaq provides more control over the temp. I painted four case mouths and then ran them all through and adjusted the time until the paint became clear just before the cases dropped out. Still somewhat subjective as "just before" is not very exact and may be hard to repeat from one batch of brass to the next.

This brings up really my only complaint with the EPI. Without a hopper it is fairly slow and after about 100 cases I've had enough. So the batch to batch consistency is probably not there as it would be on the Annealeez or Giraud. On those machines it should be a fairly easy deal to fill the hopper and then let the machine run through the load. All the operator would have to do is keep an eye on the flame and sort of monitor the process rather than be an active participant.

EPI is supposed to be working on a motorized case feeder. This will add complexity and require another outlet but it should be a good upgrade. Rather than manually having to stack cases into a gravity system the motorized case feeder will present brass into the machine as long as it is kept full.

Not like I'm planning on annealing 1000s of cases but it might be nice to have the ability to anneal in fairly large batches. It would be possible now. Just maybe not very practical without a feeder.

 

[USBP379]

 

[ParallelCode]

Decided to save money and get a more basic machine. I ordered this one:

https://www.epintegrations.com/

First I've heard of that one; looks like a neat offering at a more easily digestible price point.