7-08 Elk wannabe?

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and who brings 14 rounds out on a hunt :scrutiny: my 7mm-08 holds 5 , and I may put 4 in my pocket . my 7mmWSM holds 3 and I keep 4 on the sling , my 270's hold 5 , and again maybe I'll put 4 in my pockets , and like said above ,that would be 3 reloads ,
 
Here's the deal with 7-08s or any lighter rifle on bigger game like elk. Of course you can kill an elk with this class of rifle. The difference being that you need to watch your range and very carefully pick your shot. They give you less flexibility in your shot opportunities than do a larger heavier caliber.
 
Remington does make 7mm-08 Core Lokt in their "Managed Recoil" version. They are 560 fps slower at the muzzle than their normal 140 grain load. They've got about 900 ft-lbs. less energy. Since, according to the blog, "Michelle fumbled in her jeans jacket pocket and fished out some rounds" we don't know what was feed into the rifle.

Also in reading the blog he only states the hide had 14 holes in it. Therefore 7 - 14 were entrance holes and 0 - 7 were exit holes. He doesn't specify.

Maybe some weird combination of a low powered version of a round on the small end acceptable, a shorter barrel, underestimation of the range, and a dead on its feet animal caused these results.

I still doubt it. I think the blog writer ignored the maxim "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". I read the blog and his follow up and he got huffy when questioned. While no one likes to be called a liar if his goal was to have people believe his story a better approach would have been to recognize that his claims were unusual and to provide as much evidence as possible.

I've worked with my 7mm-08 for quite a while and have worked up a load that I'll use for moose if I'm so lucky as to get a chance.

Dan
 
I once shot a cow elk in the lung cavity 4 times with 180 grain Grand Slams at about 100 yards. All five rounds were right behind the front shoulder. The elk just stood there and wobbled on her feet for what seemed like an eternity...before tipping over dead. The two guys watching told me I shot very quickly.

My brother once knocked an elk down. It got back up and he shot it 3 more times with 168 grain Bergers out of his 7mm Rem Mag. The elk was perhaps 200 yards distant. The first hit was high shoulder and probably shocked the spine, knocking her down. The 3 follow up shots were in the boiler room.

I didn't read the blog, just the post. I was assuming the shooter did her part by using an appropriate load for the rifle, and I read into the post that she shot the critter in the boiler room (again her part) 14 times. Even with 7 hits that would be 7 pass through shots, I find it really hard to believe that the animal just stood there as if nothing happened. Then again if, all 7 bullets failed to expand at all...
 
Call me skeptical......

While I am dead certain this man has a considerable amount of experience hunting & guiding for Elk, I can’t help but think the bulk of the story has been ‘embellished’ (for drama’s sake) and the underlying reason for doing so….is to disparage the 7mm-08 and to a lesser degree the hunter.

Again, I have not been on as many Elk hunts as the Author, but here are some ‘problems’ I have with the story, using some selected quotes from it:


Author: It brought us within 80-yards of the nearest bull and about 120 yards from the farthest bull elk.

^^^^^ From this, we may surmise both the guide and hunter are at relatively close range (for Elk). The nearest Elk (the one being shot at) a scant 80 yds. away. The second Elk is a bit farther away but would most certainly be aware of anything the closer Elk was experiencing.

The story continues and at this juncture (see quote below)….three shots have been taken:

Author: Neither bull was concerned with us in the least, and both of them had seen us by now, and both went on grazing.


So… two (presumably wild Elk) at distances of 80 & 120 yds. completely ignore the muzzle blast of an ’08 three times in a row and are so comfortable with the situation that they go back to grazing.

OK, I’ve seen some weird and un-explainable things from wildlife before, so I’ll take the Author at his word so far.

Author: This went on for five shots

Now we’re up to five shots and STILL no negative reaction from either Bull. I am trying to be generous here, but this is where I begin to have serious doubts with this accounting.


Author: Michele fished out a whole box of Remington Core-Lokts from her jean jacket pocket.

Here… we finally have some concrete information (the bullet used). Remington Core-Loct….a traditionally constructed cup and core bullet.

Although it would not be my first choice for Elk, later in the story we will discover that at least a “few” of them exited the animal.

Next, we come to the first reload. From previous statements….we may assume the rifle holds five rounds and that both Elk are still going about their business (see below).

Author: She reloaded and fired one. I decided to wait two minutes before each shot. I can’t say why, but I couldn’t believe that every shot had missed from that range.


Above, it is unclear how many additional shots were taken (spaced 2 minutes apart) but from the way the story is written… a second string of five shots was taken when the author exclaims:

Author: Somewhere in the process the nearest bull laid down. The farthest still continued to graze.


So, after 10 shots the nearest bull is now laying down and the other one seems oblivious to all this and continues to graze. These could be REALLY hungry Elk I suppose.

There seems to be a narrative lapse (for me) at this point in the story, but basically another reload is required and another five shots are taken at the Elk (some possibly while it is lying down).

Author States: Michele shot everything but five bullets.

Author: I said, “Reload.”

Alrighty then, we are now on the third reload and from all accounts….we can’t definitively say whether or not the Elk has been hit even once, BUT the decision is made to move closer, see below:

Author: At 20 or 25 yards—with both bulls looking at us, one lying down chewing cud and another grazing—Michele let loose, blowing his jaw off.

From the above….I am forced to believe one of several things:

1. These are not Wild Elk.
2. The Guide and Hunter are incredibly stealthy.
3. The Elk are Blind, Deaf or Both.
4. The Author has embellished the story.

In the end (see below), we find that the Elk had indeed been hit multiple times with NO guts shots (though peripheral hits cannot be excluded).


Author: Skinning showed something odd. In addition to one shot to the brain and one shot through the jaw, the hide had 14 bullet holes in it. No gut shots were found. Most of the bullets entered and a few had exited.


In retort to certain ‘replies’ the Author received on his blog site, he offers this:

Author: In the story, I stated that Michelle had "done her job." That does not mean that all her shot hit. In fact, most missed.

OK, then would it not be appropriate to state so in the BEGINNING instead of condemning the cartridge?

Author: Additionally, I stated that there were 14 bullet holes in the hide. Fourteen holes in a hide from bullets that entered and exited does not equate to 14 hits.

Rather begs the question: What was your intent then?

Author: Do the math.

It would be easier for the Author to just tell us how many good hits were present, but I can do simple math….so I’ll take a stab at it.

We are told in the story that a “few” of bullets exited, so for each bullet that “exited” (not fragments) we can assign TWO holes.

The definition of a “few” is simply: a small number. In this context (hits on the Elk) it is reasonable to imagine 3-5. Let’s just go with the lower figure (to aid the Author’s argument).

OK, here comes the math part:

NOT including the two head shots, we have 14 bullet holes accounted for, right?

IF three of the shots exited (each leaving two bullet holes) we can subtract 6 from 14….leaving us 8.

All the rest (8 shots) did NOT exit….leaving one bullet hole each.

8 + 3 shots= 11 hits on the animal (not counting the two head shots).

The Author stated that “most shots missed” when in fact “most” shots hit, yet another disparity.

In summary, the Author would have us believe… that up until shot number 16….neither Elk seemed to be concerned, even though all of this took place at a distance no greater than 80 yds.

Eventually… they walked up to within 35 yds of the Elk the hunter had been shooting at, only to find it lying down “chewing cud”.

Maybe it’s just me…but I find that “Cud” easier to swallow than this story.

Flint.
 
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yep. 5 rd mag limit, even it it's an autoloader.

It would take at the least, 10 seconds, at very close range, to get 13 hits, and more like 15 seconds, most likely. An elk can cover 100 yds in 7 seconds. :) So unless we are talking a lot of gut hits on one that's flopping around wounded, and a hunter that's too crippled up to run 100 yds and brain it, or maybe across a crevasse? Frankly, I think that somebody is lying, or badly mistaken about the details.
 
Well, the man was a control freak, Marine, and ran a hunt like it was a military mission against the Taliban.

But, he is not a liar.

I'm hesitent to call any man a liar over something I did not personally witness, but if not an outright lie, there is far more to this story than he's telling us. The style in which it was written, his attitude when questioned, and the facts as we know them in regards to the capabilities of the 7mm-08 round all point to this story being less than 100% true. If 1% of a story isn't obviously accurate, it makes the other 99% pretty hard to believe in my experience.
 
Sounds like a guy with an agenda who's trying to prove his point. Unfortunately he's embellished it a bit and now is trying to stand by his story and save face.
 
I'm hesitent to call any man a liar over something I did not personally witness, but if not an outright lie, there is far more to this story than he's telling us. The style in which it was written, his attitude when questioned, and the facts as we know them in regards to the capabilities of the 7mm-08 round all point to this story being less than 100% true. If 1% of a story isn't obviously accurate, it makes the other 99% pretty hard to believe in my experience.


I didn't see it either. It was likely embellished some as most stories are. He told the story at least ten years ago when I was hunting with him. Can't believe it is showing up now. Small world.
 
A good freind of mine shoots the 7mm08 in M7 Remington and 140 NBT's. I have seen that combo basically decapitate whitetailed deer on to numerous occasions to count. If you do it right that gun would kill elk no problem the internal damage alone is enough to drop about anything in the lower 48.

I owned one and sold it back before I reloaded and sold it because the rifle just destroyed everything I shot with it the factory ammo choices back in the early 80's was really lame.

Good luck and shoot straight
 
I shot a 6x5 across a canyon with a 7x57 and one 140 gr. Nosler Partition bullet. He went about 50 yards and piled up.
It was impossible to step off the distance but was over 300 yards.
 
It's unlikely I'll ever get the chance to take an Elk. The off chance that I do, I'll surely take 2 rifles(or bows for that matter).

I'd found this blog while doing some "research". It struck me odd as the 7-08 is a ballistic twin to the 7x57 and not far behind the .280. It got me thinking "what sort of gun is needed to cleanly kill such an animal". What was the blogger using in his obvious slaying of said juggernauts. Most of you folks have dissagreed with Mr. Carroll in one way or an other. I felt as if I had no good reason to disagree because I'd never been there or done that.
 
I counted 28 shots, including the 3rd to last that hit the dirt.
She pulled out a full box of Remingtons to finish the job, after taking her first 5 shots.
She had 2 rounds left after the last shot and had gone into the field with 30 rounds.
 
I have shot a couple of elk with my 7mm-08. I am using the 120 grain TTSX. The bullet plowed through meat and bone, leaving me with a dead elk. Both required one shot. BTW, the rest of the herd took off like a bat out of Hades.
 
Shot at 688 yards with a .243. I don't want to get into ethics, but some of the crew that split away from Pete Burns and his early Best of the West have taken elk at that range and further with a .243 launching a 105 grain Berger. Not much margin for error.
 
You don't get much better than a Berger as far as B.C. goes without a custom swaged bullet. Yet, like you said "I don't want to get into ethics".

The 243win has less drop than most at that distance and is an inherently accurate round. If you could get a Barnes type bullet with Berger type drag... then you'd have it all.

I know lots of Whitetail hunters that think the 243 is not enough gun. Mostly shots around here are less than 100yds and most deer are less than 175 lbs. A 150lb doe was shot a few weeks ago and it was the tlalk of the town.
 
Not much margin for error.

I'd go a step further and say NO margin for error. Kind of a stupid human trick IMO but I know there are guys who do it.
 
I'd go a step further and say NO margin for error. Kind of a stupid human trick IMO but I know there are guys who do it.
did you watch the video ? that 686yard 243win shot was made by what looked like a teenage girl, humm dose this mean a 243win is better than a 7mm-08rem for Elk ? :scrutiny: :rolleyes:or is this guide better than the one that did the 7mm-08 bashing blog ?
 
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I don't think anyone here is arguing that the .243 is a "better" elk round than the 7mm-08, or that its even a decently good choice for long range elk hunting. Yes, the girl popped an elk with it. That doesn't mean it's a smart or recommended task. What can can be accomplished under ideal conditions, and what the average Joe should try, are often two very very different things. What is possible to do isn't always smart to do. As for how many rounds she took on the hunt....what does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Who really cares? I usually just slip the box of shells in my pocket after loading my gun...done so for years....does carrying 16 "extra" rounds somehow make me less of a hunter even if I've never come close to using them? I don't see how the number of available rounds really has anything to do with anything. Would it have somehow been better had she had half the amount of cartridges, and ended up losing the animal because there was no way left to dispatch it? I just don't understand disparaging someone for having extra ammo at their disposal. Much like a self-defense weapon, I'd much rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. the weight of ten rounds of ammo isn't going to affect my endurance or performance in any way, so why not have them?
 
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did you watch the video ? that 686yard 243win shot was made by what looked like a teenage girl, humm dose this mean a 243win is better than a 7mm-08rem for Elk ? or is this guide better than the one that did the 7mm-08 bashing blog ?

I don't need to watch a video to know that a .243 is minimal to fault as an elk gun and leaves no room for error. It doesn't matter if a little girl or a big girl or an old man is shooting it. And at 688 yards it's really on the weak side of inadequate for elk. You better hit the soft part.
 
I too see 600+yd shot having no room for error in both .243 and 7mm-08. It's a big animal!

I'll tell you what I've seen though. I shot a large beaver in the head at 20yds with 115gr 25wssm. The bullet, of ballistic tip style, failed to exit the head. It was shot in the eye quartering to me. The bullet should have exited behind the opposite eye. I know the speed and construction of a projectile plays a role in penetration.
 
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