7.62 x54 what kind was it

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badbowtie

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Today i was at the range at springvally in ohio.
Their was a guy their shooting a 7.62x54 military gun he was nice enough to let me shoot 5 rounds through it well I fell in love with it. I am almost positive it was the russian 91/30. He was telling me about the 91/30 that had the bayonett on the front. I don't want that one I have been doing some searching and can find a couple different ones I found a sporter rifle and then I can find a regular one and then I also find one that has the hex receiver. I will be shooting it at the range and will be planning to dear hunt with it next year. I will also want to mount a scope on it. Are they all 48" long because I don't think his was that long or is the sporter rifle the one to go with that has the synthetic stock on it. Any advice or pictures you guys can give on these rifles would be great.
Thanks
 
it had a folding bayonet? folds down the side of the rifle? if so its an M44

M91 and M91/30's are full length rifles
M38's are carbines with out a bayonet
M44 are carbines with a folding bayonet

there are also finn versions of the above, and com bloc/chicom version. but thats the basic run down. M91/30's will run you under 100$ each M44's about 100. and m38's a little more. i believe all M44's had round recievers. most m91/30's you will find will have round recievers. im unsure on m38's

m44 and m38's had 20 inch barrels. 91's had 31" 91/30's have 28"

fin models tend to have longer barrels
 
How about a Mosin Nagant M38...


19.jpg
 
Mosin Nagant M38 that is it.
His did not have a bayonet. And what ever I buy I don't want mine to have one either now if i buy the 91/30 Can I take it completly off and not have any problems with it still shooting well. I guess I will be looking at one of these three then.
Russian MN91/30 $69.95
Russian MN91/30 with Hex Receiver $79.95
Russian 91/30 Sporter Rifle $129.95

The sporter rifle is going to be the lightest because of the synthetic stock but with one will be the best for the range shooting and deer hunting. What is the benafit of the hex receiver also Who sells scopes and mounts for these guns. Also what kind of distance am I going to beable to shoot accuratly at.
If the regular one will do evrything I want then that is what I would rather get for the price. Also Is their other ways down the road to make these things lighter like synthetic stock later If I don't spend the money now.
Thanks
 
The sporter rifle is going to be the lightest because of the synthetic stock
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have you fired a MN before? light isnt always the quality you want. they kick pretty good.

What is the benafit of the hex receiver
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Hex reciever mostly means it was a Prewar/ early war rifle. they tend to be better build quality. as the war got worse for the russians they became rather strapped for rifles ( ever seen enemy at the gates? where one guy gets a rifle, the other gets ammo. well in reality, you were lucky if you got that.) since they needed rifles, they started cutting corners, and one of the first to go was the hex reciever and the costly, timely machining required of it.

Who sells scopes and mounts for these guns.
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there are atleast 2 options here. a Soviet style mount available at almost any website or surplus house. these will require a "bent" or "turned down" bolt. another option is a western "scout" style. where the scope is mounted for long eye relief ( if you plan on scoping it using a russian style mount, can i suggest you get an Ex sniper rifle. like the ones from http://www.classicarms.us/htm/firearms.htm , they are pre drilled so you wont have to ( 120$) )

Also what kind of distance am I going to beable to shoot accuratly at.
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thats really a rifle by rifle basis. some are tack drivers, some would be better used as war clubs or fire wood.

If the regular one will do evrything I want then that is what I would rather get for the price.
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A m91/30 will do all the others will. but you have to get a good 91/30. id advise taking advantage of any "hand pick" options you may be presented. this means a person will actualy look for a good rifle ( or certain charecteristic) for you. as opposed to just grabbing the "next in line" outta the box. m38 tend to be thought of as "better" than 91/30's simply because of a numbers process. theyre were WAY more 91/30's most older or war period rifles. so your chances of getting a good M38 are higher than a good m91/30. but a good 91/30 and a good m38 will serve you just fine

Also Is their other ways down the road to make these things lighter like synthetic stock later If I don't spend the money now.
Thanks
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yes, many companys make synth stocks. ATI stocks comes to mind http://www.atigunstocks.com/
 
Some (very few!!) Mosins will have enough accuracy to be used as deer rifles. If you are within 50 to 100 yards, you should be able to kill a deer with the first shot assuming a good barrel and quality hunting ammo. I would be reluctant to go beyond 100 yards with a Mosin.

As an example for level of accuracy, the Russian military specified a 6" grouping at 200 yards as the standard for the 91/30 at the start of WWII. The 91/30 was the primary light infantry rifle and the M38 was designed for support troops that were not in daily combat situations. The M44 was issued to some troops like airborne units.

The 7.62x54R round is close to a .308 in ballistics so it will be powerful enough for deer and possibly elk.

Winchester, Remington and Wolf makes soft-point ammo in 150 and 180gr for hunting. You will find that most every state prohibits the use of full metal jacket rounds for hunting.

IMHO, I would be looking at something else for hunting use. While Mosins are cheap and plentiful, it's possible to find a decent used Winchester Model 70, Remington 700 or 710, or a Savage in something like .30-06 or .308 for a couple hundred. These rifles will be in far better condition and parts will be easier to come by. If you are going to hunt next season, then I would consider saving up for a specific stype of hunting rifle.

While Mosins are fun to collect and shoot, it's just that the chances of finding a relatively accurate one for taking game is a crap shoot. When looking at Mosins, take a bore light with you. I have a MagLite "Solitare" that uses a single AAA battery and fits in almost any receiver. You can find them at any hardware store. Look for the shiniest bore you can find. Mosin bolts are supposed to be loose in the action but will lock up tightly. Also have the headspace checked!

The muzzle crown should be nice and round with the lands clearly visible. Some Mosins will be "counter-bored" which removes the lands from the last 3/4" of the barrel and returns the sharpness of the ends of the rifling. This help in restoring some accuracy and any gunsmith can do this.
 
you have a couple options.
find a local gunshop, and see if they can order a rifle from a importer.( CAI, interordinance or Samco)
find a local gunshop and ask if they will accept a FFL transfer.can cost 10-30$ ( Classic arms will send the rifle to your local shop, you then will fill out forms there)
Get a C&R FFL. cost 30$ and you can order all the C&R arms you want, delivered right to your door.
 
Well I filled out the form as long as I did it correctly I was not sure on part 2 I guess I was filling out for the f 3. Will classic be one of the places that will ship straight to my door. Also were are some real good places that do accept my C&R
about how long does it take from start to finish to get it.
 
As an example for level of accuracy, the Russian military specified a 6" grouping at 200 yards as the standard for the 91/30 at the start of WWII. The 91/30 was the primary light infantry rifle and the M38 was designed for support troops that were not in daily combat situations. The M44 was issued to some troops like airborne units.
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No, the M-44 was the replacement for the 91/30. The M38 was not just a reserve weapon but was carried by many NCO's in front line duty. You will be hard pressed to find an M38 that didn't get used a lot. The ones with good bores have amost all been rebored and counterbored to give them fresh rifling and a new crown. This is how they end up at .313" and beyond.

I've never had a 91/30 that shot 6 MOA. I'm not sure where people get the idea that this was the standard. The Soviet 91/30's in good condition range from 2 MOA to 4 MOA at the worst. There are a lot of them that saw the worst end of WWII, and have bores and crowns so worn they're almost shotguns. These will shoot horribly, as would any rifle in that condition.

My advice is to self select a pre-1939 Soviet 91/30 with a good bore and crown, then do basic accurizing by inserting any needed shims and keeping the receiver screws hand tight. That should get you a good shooter.

If you want to scope one, I agree get an ex-sniper and remount a PU scope on it, or get a darrells scout mount.
 
I just bought two laminated M44s from Interordinance, both set me back 175 even which comes to $87.50 each.

I could have gotten either an M44 with birch stock or 91/30 for 63. I plan on getting a 91/30 in the near future.

A C&R license is nice.
 
Okay I am also looking at the m44 also If I buy one of them can you just take the bayonet off. I was told buy the guy up at the range that some of them were designed to have that actually flipped out to make the gun shoot correctly. Is that true and I guess I can just mount a scope on that also.
 
Okay I am also looking at the m44 also If I buy one of them can you just take the bayonet off. I was told buy the guy up at the range that some of them were designed to have that actually flipped out to make the gun shoot correctly. Is that true and I guess I can just mount a scope on that also.
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like anything in life, all it takes is a little effort to remove the bayonet. how ever the bayonet lug will stay as a ugly little block stuck on the barrel. the rifles are said to have been sighted in with the bayonet mounted. this is because in WW2 russia the bayonet was supposed to remain mounted at all times except transportation and long term storage. iv heard several reason it affects the POI ( point of impact). some say barrel harmonics. some say uneven pressure upon leaving the barrel ( meaning the bayonet impeedes the equal dispersion of gasses on one side of the round, affecting aim) and some other theoreys that closer resemble a Yakov Smirnoff routine. "in soviet russia rifle fires you!"

if you dont want the bayonet, and you want a rifle that would be a nice looking "sporter" id suggest either a m38 or a m91/30 (ex sniper to save the grief of mounting a scope) the M44 sans bayonet would probibly look ugly in a sporter stock

another approach is the "scout" rifle
M44-03MkII.jpg
its a M44, but the barrel was cut eliminating the front sight and bayonet mount.
it allows the use of a standard "straight" bolt and loading via stripper clips

mount is about 60$
http://www.impactguns.com/store/SC037.html
Stock is about 60$
www.atigunstocks.com
Rifle probibly about 80$ if you go with a m44

200$ and a scolpe you will have a nice "sporter"
 
So if i get the m44 can anybody cut the barrel off to make it shorter or do I have to take it to gunsmith. I can get the m44 local the m38 is allitle harder to find. But if i get the m44 Even if I leave the bayonet on I would have to have it opened to beable to shoot it acuratly you said it was sighted in with it on their so If i placed a scope on it then sighted it in with out the bayonet it would be fine. I am not that worried about the looks of the block. I just don't want to have it open everytime I want to shoot it.
 
you should have a gunsmith do it for a couple of reasons. one so you dont accidentaly cut it shorter than 16 inches. two the gunsmith can put a new crown ont he barrel ( the shape of the end of the barrel)

If i placed a scope on it then sighted it in with out the bayonet it would be fine. I am not that worried about the looks of the block. I just don't want to have it open everytime I want to shoot it.
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thats correct, if you sight the scope in with out the bayonet then you will be just fine. you iron sights will be off, but since you have a scope it wont matter. you can also re calibrate the iron sights should you feel the need, by "drifting" the front sight. this takes a little patience but is simple. basicly so long as you consistantly leave the bayonet off your scope will remain in zero.

sorry if i repeat myself or if i dont always answer the direct question, my brain tends to wander.:uhoh: LOOK A SQUIRREL! tehehe * runs after squirrel*
 
Why are you buying it? If it's just to make it into a scoped rifle with no irons, why not buy a Savage or Ruger? You should see what it shoots like with the existing barrel length before you start trying to cut it back. Mosins do not respond well to hack and slash treatment, and are nowhere near as easy to modify as Mausers.
 
I like these style guns I have two sks one with factory sights and one with a scope I enjoy shooting both of them. I am not going to worry about cutting the barrel down. I am just trying to locate a m38 or a m44 How long has it taken you guys from start to finish to get you C&R license assuming I mail the packet back the next day after I get it.
 
Sorry I didn't read all the posts...

I bought 2 Mosin Nagants recently, a M44 for my son and a 91/30 for myself. I ran a patch through the barrel of the 91/30 a few times and took it to the range. I put a full body target up at 100 yards and fired a box of 20 surplus rounds. I hit 19 out of 20 in the body.... Not a bad gun at all especially for only $96. The M44 was only $85.

The bayonet can be removed from the M44 by taking out the mounting screw and the bayonet that comes on the 91/30 snaps into place and is easily removed.

If you like old guns and want to shoot all day for only $3 a box of ammo then get yourself a Mosin Nagant.
 
Attached is my 7.62x54 that I aquired from my Grandpa who brought it back from WWII. I was told that it was Russian, but that is all the history I know. The stock was cut short or broke. It took many hours to clean it. It was actually my first deer rifle and it took my first buck and doe. Iron sites only.
 
give aim surplus a try,its in middletown so its pretty close to you,and as far as a mosin not being accurate enough,ive shot them in 300yard matches with great results,take a deer at 100yards,hell yes
 
Also were can I order the but pad for the m44. The guy at the reange had a rubber cushion that slid on the stock with like a sock that had a couple spots to keep some rounds in.
 
I've never been bothered by the recoil of a Mosin carbine - I think the stock must simply fit me very well - but I notice that wearing a moderately heavy jacket really reduces what felt recoil there is.

M38 recoil with light-ball feels identical to 7.5x55 from a K31, or .308 from a Rem 700 to me. Heavy-ball feels more like .30-06. Of course, stock fitment aside, recoil is VERY subjective, and your results will likely vary.
 
don't butcher the rifle get a darrel mount and a scout or pistol scope. That way you get a hunting rifle, that can be turned back to historically correct rifle in less than 10 mins.
 
don't butcher the rifle get a darrel mount and a scout or pistol scope. That way you get a hunting rifle, that can be turned back to historically correct rifle in less than 10 mins.
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Or just get a 91/30 sniper and stay historically correct all the time. :D
Mine shoots excellent groups at 100 and 200 yards with hand loads.
my 91/30
th_Nagantsniperrefinished.jpg
 
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