What is the big deal between the steel core and lead in 7.62x39? Is the penetration that much better? does it matter?
7.62x39 lead verses steel core what's the big deal
- Thread starter glockamolee
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I used steel-cored ammo in my AK in Iraq during convoy-ops simply for better penetration of motor vehicles, which was our biggest threat (apart from IEDs, of course).
From what I've been told by dealers is steel-cored ammo is not legal anymore because of it's ability to penetrate body armor... 
Steel core x39 is just the old style. It's SOFT steel, not AP. It may give you a bit more penetration, but not that much. Either ball would penetrate a normal motor vehicle's doors.
http://www.ak-47.net/ammo/steelcore.html
IIRC, the more modern lead core x39 ball has a greater tendency to keyhole after impact with a soft target due to its weight distribution.
http://www.ak-47.net/ammo/steelcore.html
IIRC, the more modern lead core x39 ball has a greater tendency to keyhole after impact with a soft target due to its weight distribution.
Steel core was banned because of a combination of a-hole clinton era atf plus an olympic arms AR pistol in 7.62x39 at a gun show that was never sold commercially.
Steel core chinese is MILD STEEL. It doesnt penetrate any better than lead. A lot of the early "armor piercing" AK rounds did a really crappy job of penetrating even modest amounts of steel armor. Supposedly modern 5.45 and 7.62x54 do a much better job, I imagine thanks to modern metallurgy.
If you want to defeat armor, learn how to make IEDs.
-Everything below an APC can be taken out by regular FMJ easily unless they are sporting a ton of kevlar and polyacrylic glass. It is very hard to make a humvee sized automobile and completely armor the tires, passenger compartment and engine and still have it be light enough to carry a cargo and move at a reasonable pace. Obviously something like 50 BMG is going to take stuff like this out with one hit.
-Supposedly some APCs are vulnerable to 308 AP from certain angles. As far as I know, all of them fall to 50 AP or 14.5mm AP MG fire. Maybe the newer stuff is tougher, I dont know.
-Tanks are several orders of magnitude tougher and require dedicated AT weaponry or explosives. See original advice. IEDs are sneakier, less risky to the end-user and work against every sort of vehicle. Cowardice for the win.
Steel core chinese is MILD STEEL. It doesnt penetrate any better than lead. A lot of the early "armor piercing" AK rounds did a really crappy job of penetrating even modest amounts of steel armor. Supposedly modern 5.45 and 7.62x54 do a much better job, I imagine thanks to modern metallurgy.
If you want to defeat armor, learn how to make IEDs.
-Everything below an APC can be taken out by regular FMJ easily unless they are sporting a ton of kevlar and polyacrylic glass. It is very hard to make a humvee sized automobile and completely armor the tires, passenger compartment and engine and still have it be light enough to carry a cargo and move at a reasonable pace. Obviously something like 50 BMG is going to take stuff like this out with one hit.
-Supposedly some APCs are vulnerable to 308 AP from certain angles. As far as I know, all of them fall to 50 AP or 14.5mm AP MG fire. Maybe the newer stuff is tougher, I dont know.
-Tanks are several orders of magnitude tougher and require dedicated AT weaponry or explosives. See original advice. IEDs are sneakier, less risky to the end-user and work against every sort of vehicle. Cowardice for the win.
Yeah Right! Soft body armor isn't designed to stop rifle fire. You to add harden steel plates to the vest for that.
-Bill
whm1974,
You are correct. However, the ban affects handgun cartridges tht are capable of penetrating soft body armor. The steel core 7.62 x 39 ammo was legal, UNTIL the aforementioned "handgun" made its appearance.
Back on topic, I recall reading a review by Ed Sanow some years ago re: "Roadblock Ammo." He tested handguns, shotguns (rifled slugs and buckshot) and rifles in 5.56, 7.62 x 39, 7.62 NATO and .30-06 (.30-06 AP, just for purposes of comparison
). The rounds were fired at angles against automobile doors, fenders, windshields & side windows, to determine the best weapons for law enforcement use against occupants of oncoming automobiles.
Service handgun and shotgun rounds were generally lacking in penetration against automobiles. It was up to the rifles.
As I recall, the winner was . . . .30-06 APwhat: SURPRISE!!!)
Other cartridges, using lead-core FMJs, produced the following results:
2nd place: 7.62 NATO
3rd Place: OK, memory fails me; can't recall whether 7.62 x 39 or 5.56 "won out" at the tail end of the spectrum.
A rather unexpected result came when Sanow fired some early, steel-cored FMJ from his 7.62 x 39 SKS. It reportedly out-penetrated the lead-core 7.62 NATO, and was surpassed only by the .30-06 AP.
Just for whatever it's worth . . .
You are correct. However, the ban affects handgun cartridges tht are capable of penetrating soft body armor. The steel core 7.62 x 39 ammo was legal, UNTIL the aforementioned "handgun" made its appearance.
Back on topic, I recall reading a review by Ed Sanow some years ago re: "Roadblock Ammo." He tested handguns, shotguns (rifled slugs and buckshot) and rifles in 5.56, 7.62 x 39, 7.62 NATO and .30-06 (.30-06 AP, just for purposes of comparison
). The rounds were fired at angles against automobile doors, fenders, windshields & side windows, to determine the best weapons for law enforcement use against occupants of oncoming automobiles.Service handgun and shotgun rounds were generally lacking in penetration against automobiles.
It was up to the rifles. As I recall, the winner was . . . .30-06 AP
what: SURPRISE!!!)Other cartridges, using lead-core FMJs, produced the following results:
2nd place: 7.62 NATO
3rd Place: OK, memory fails me; can't recall whether 7.62 x 39 or 5.56 "won out" at the tail end of the spectrum.
A rather unexpected result came when Sanow fired some early, steel-cored FMJ from his 7.62 x 39 SKS. It reportedly out-penetrated the lead-core 7.62 NATO, and was surpassed only by the .30-06 AP.
Just for whatever it's worth . . .
armoredman
Member
Almost all 7.62x54R is steel core, and not classified as AP. I wonder how well a Dragunov clone would do against various vehicles....
Beerslurpy, the last armored truck I worked in was rated level 5, and the new one coming in was level 6. Whether or not those were actual levels, or our manufacturers estimate protection, they were rated against any rifle fire, including AP ammo. The manufacturer stated the latest generation would stop 50 cal from several angles. This is a composite armor, BTW, not just steel plate. Yes, commercial armored trucks, not Iraqui gun trucks, though they could use them over there...
Beerslurpy, the last armored truck I worked in was rated level 5, and the new one coming in was level 6. Whether or not those were actual levels, or our manufacturers estimate protection, they were rated against any rifle fire, including AP ammo. The manufacturer stated the latest generation would stop 50 cal from several angles. This is a composite armor, BTW, not just steel plate. Yes, commercial armored trucks, not Iraqui gun trucks, though they could use them over there...
The reason why 54R is not classified as AP and thus banned is because there is no handguns for it.
Even though there was no Olympics sold commercially, I have heaqrd that some did make it into circulation, at least to some degree. Also, TC made Contenders in 7.62x39 as well.
Even though there was no Olympics sold commercially, I have heaqrd that some did make it into circulation, at least to some degree. Also, TC made Contenders in 7.62x39 as well.
18 USC 921(a)(17):
Why would this include the first generation soft steel core x39? I smell yet another BATF rat.
Why would this include the first generation soft steel core x39? I smell yet another BATF rat.
Barnes
With that definition, I am not sure if Barnes Bullets are legal???
And what about all of the Thomson Contenders and Encores out there in just about any imaginable Rifle caliber??
The FedGov really is out of control.
With that definition, I am not sure if Barnes Bullets are legal???
And what about all of the Thomson Contenders and Encores out there in just about any imaginable Rifle caliber??
The FedGov really is out of control.
I dont know what type of core it has but I know wolf hps, and sps will shoot through quite bit of mild steel... My neghbor made a few metal targets out of 3/16" plates for pistol practice, and it punches holes clean through them from 100+yds... Found that out by accident, when just goofing around.
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