7.62x39mm gel test: Winchester 120 gr PDX1 fired from 10.5" & 16" AKs

[chopinbloc]

Winchester 120 gr PDX1 fired from 10.5" Zastava M92 PAP and 16" WASR-10/63 into calibrated 10% gelatin.

BB: 593.5 fps, 3.6"

16" WASR-10/63

Impact velocity: 2,362 fps
Penetration: greater than 22.5"
Retained weight: N/A
Max expansion: N/A
Min expansion: N/A

I shot this portion of the test twice and both times the bullet fragmented dramatically and the remaining portion left the block at an oblique angle.


10.5" M92 PAP

Impact velocity: 2,182 fps
Penetration: 12.9"
Retained weight: 111.4 gr
Max expansion: 1.048"
Min expansion: 0.193"

Please bear in mind that the expansion figures here are not proper. The bullet was completely mangled and there was no real expansion.

I don't often give my opinion in the description but I think this one merits a quick note. It certainly appears that this bullet would be useful for defense. Both tests shown and the one that I omitted indicate that the bullet will meet the minimum penetration requirement while producing substantial stretch cavity and fragmentation. It bothers me that the recovered bullet is so beat up, though. This certainly could be a viable self defense option but I think it bears a lot more testing.

 

[nathan]

They perform like the Russian military 8M3 effect hollow point bullets. They fragment on impact like a grenade. I still have some of these Uly 8M3 . I think Wolf does use them on their HP variety but who knows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrS-kya8xVA

 

[chopinbloc]

In the sense that it comes apart with absolute abandon, I'd have to agree. I'm not seeing the behavior claimed on the box, though. Really disappointing performance for $1.50/rd ammunition. At this price point, I'd definitely prefer Hornady SST. At this performance level, anything with the 8M3 bullet would cost a lot less for similar performance.

 

[Inebriated]

Cool vid. I really like the SST load myself, it's what I keep in my AK's at the house.

Glad to see a self-defense oriented round in 7.62x39, though... hasn't really had much attention in that way.

 

[Gtscotty]

It seems kind of odd that the slower bullet from the shorter barrel penetrated less, and was mangled more than the faster bullet from the longer barrel... Any theories?

 

[chopinbloc]

Inebriated, I concur. The SST performs VERY well and I would prefer it for defense. In case you didn't see my test of 123 gr SST:




Gtscotty, after taking all the measurements and pictures, I found the nose section of the bullet from the first 16" test at around the 12" mark. I believe that these bullets do usually break into two pieces if the velocity is great enough, with the base section penetrating more deeply. I'm not confident with the seemingly haphazard behavior, though.

 

[armoredman]

I use a 123 gr Hornady soft point bullet over 27 grains of Accurate Arms #1680, gives approximately 2300 FPS and I think will work for SD just fine. I've never once seen any "hollow point" Russian ammo "expand" in the classic sense, only fragment violently. Devastating enough if need be, just not a great choice as a HUNTING round. I will have to say the mere thought of buying SD 7.62x39mm ammo at $1.50 each is, shall we say, "not seriously entertained at this moment".

Edit to add - I did buy one box of the "Zombie Max" ammo for grins and giggles - has anyone tested that stuff in this same way?

 

[chopinbloc]

I don't blame you. Some of the commie JHP does fragment. "Hollow point" rifle bullets, by and large, are not designed to expand. The open tip is more a remnant of the manufacturing process and is not intended to function the way a hollow point handgun bullet works. That said, some of the Russian stuff is loaded with the 8M3 or 8HP bullets, which both seem to work very well. The problem is that you don't know which ones use it without buying a box and inspecting the bullet. Worse, some people have reported that they have found different types of projectile within a single box of Tula. Here's what another YouTube tester got with 8M3 and 8HP bullets:




I'd expect your soft point hand load to perform very well. Do you have any results you're willing to share (game, gel, water)? I'll have to keep my eye out for those components.

 

[Inebriated]

Ah, I looked but didn't see it. Thanks for the link.

 

[armoredman]

I'd be more than happy to share...but I have no data other than chrono and targets. It's accurate enough out of both the CZ 527M and SA vz-58 for me to use, but I haven't done any expansion tests yet. Need to find more of these bullets in stock, too. In a pinch, I have a cast lead bullet load with a 129 grain spire point that steps out at 19,00 FPS, might do the trick. THAT one would be fun to test in media, just for the grins of it.

Edit to add...we seem to be in the same state...hmmm...

 

[chopinbloc]

I live in North Phoenix and I shoot at Table Mesa most Fridays. You're welcome to come test that load in gelatin. Maybe you can help me accuracy test some of the 7.62x39 ammo, too. My buddy that usually comes with me casts for 7.62x39mm and we've been meaning to test one of the cast bullets in gelatin.

 

[Girodin]

It seems kind of odd that the slower bullet from the shorter barrel penetrated less, and was mangled more than the faster bullet from the longer barrel... Any theories?

Sample sizes of one aren't great for really learning much.

 

[chopinbloc]

That's right, although I think that when the projectile expands in a more uniform way, there is less chance that the results are anomalous. Bottom line, though, is that tests like mine are in no way definitive.

 

[Girodin]

I want to be clear, I like seeing test like this and they are interesting. I just wanted to keep some perspective on interpreting the results.

 

[armoredman]

chopin, I might have to get with you some day, have to take a Friday off, bring along the vz-58 and CZ 527M/CSR.

 

[chopinbloc]

Sounds good.