7.62x54R
- Thread starter cwdotson
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PSL rifles. some times errorously refered to as Draganovs. several semi auto versions of famous machine guns ( DP's, PK's)
the russian medved(sp?) was a hunting rifle available in 54r
not many NEW rifles, but PLENTY of used ones out there.
the russian medved(sp?) was a hunting rifle available in 54r
not many NEW rifles, but PLENTY of used ones out there.
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Thanks-I was just thinking that if someone like Savage made a tough, simple, affordable bolt-action, with the cheap ammo, what a fun gun. I know Mosins are out there, and I know some of the Finns can be very accurate, especially, but still, what the heck!
Thanks-I was just thinking that if someone like Savage made a tough, simple, affordable bolt-action, with the cheap ammo, what a fun gun. I know Mosins are out there, and I know some of the Finns can be very accurate, especially, but still, what the heck!
chris in va
Member
They need to. My Mosin is cool, but the sights are horrible, even canted off to one side. The ammo is so darn cheap someone needs to take advantage of that situation. Even an NEF would work!
Clipper
Member
I'm sure you could rechamber a NEF 30-30 barrel...
silverlance
Member
just get an M39 and never gripe about how the ammo is there but the gun is not again.=)
trust me, your current russkies will be the ugly old babushka and the m39 will be the cute little thing next door...
trust me, your current russkies will be the ugly old babushka and the m39 will be the cute little thing next door...
Cosmoline
Member
I believe there were quite a few Finnish rifles made for it since WWII, as well as wildcat rounds based on it. The word from the field is that these have fallen into disuse to some extent over in Scandinavia. At least for marksmanship competitions. They go with .338 Lapuas and the like now.
But don't dispair. There will still be Mosins shooting in 2107.
But don't dispair. There will still be Mosins shooting in 2107.
rockstar.esq
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I would think that the reason that we don't see domestically produced rifles so chambered is a function of two things.
1) No American ammo maker loads this cartridge. (Winchester white box is Privi Partisan)
2) The 7.62X54R is headspaced off the rim which is in stark contrast to most commonly chambered cartridges. The net result of which is that it's hard to keep it up to the same accuracy standard as other cartridges which would make that chambering a sore thumb in the company roster.
Also I've really never heard of a rifle being built to capitalize on cheap surplus ammo. The closest thing I can think of is the Mini 30 however that's sort of a tough one to claim is "surplus" given the continual chambering the 7.62X39 enjoys via the AK.
1) No American ammo maker loads this cartridge. (Winchester white box is Privi Partisan)
2) The 7.62X54R is headspaced off the rim which is in stark contrast to most commonly chambered cartridges. The net result of which is that it's hard to keep it up to the same accuracy standard as other cartridges which would make that chambering a sore thumb in the company roster.
Also I've really never heard of a rifle being built to capitalize on cheap surplus ammo. The closest thing I can think of is the Mini 30 however that's sort of a tough one to claim is "surplus" given the continual chambering the 7.62X39 enjoys via the AK.
TimboKhan
Member
Rockstar, Ruger until recently offered a rifle in 6.5x55 Swedish, and I believe that Remington offered a rifle in that caliber as well. Plus, if you REALLY want to be technical, wouldn't the .30-06 also fall under this category?
Waywatcher
Member
I'm not seeing any connection... 30-06 is 7.62x63, doesnt have a rim, and the actual bullets are .308".
7.62x54R has a rim and the actual bullet diameter is .311".
Silent-Snail
Member
I belive the connection is that 30-06, 7.62x54R, and 6.5x55 Swedish are all surplus. TimboKhan, please correct me if I misunderstood you.
P.S. Is it Sweedish or Swedish?
P.S. Is it Sweedish or Swedish?
TimboKhan
Member
Rockstar said:
That would be why I pointed out .30-06, and the 6.5 Swedish.
I will say that in both cases I am not entirely sure that my examples fit his thinking.
That would be why I pointed out .30-06, and the 6.5 Swedish.
I will say that in both cases I am not entirely sure that my examples fit his thinking.
There are a few misconceptions popping up here. Some very very popular rounds headspace on the rim. And their accuracy is not in question. Both the .30-30 Winchester and the .45-70 Govt. (to name just two) headspace on the rim. Nearly all rounds intended for revolvers also headpace on the rim. Factories have no trouble making these rounds, and making them within accepted accuracy standards.
Also, while there is still surplus ammo for the .30-06, it is no longer considered exclusively a GI surplus caliber, being one of the premier civilian sporting rounds.
The simple fact of the matter is, no one makes a 7.62x54R sporting rifle in the US today, because it would not sell. Or sell more than a handful, which would not be enough to justify the cost of the tooling. Those few people who want a new rifle in this caliber simply buy something from overseas.
There is no US made action which is easily converted to 7.62x54R other than some single shots. It isn't worth the cost.
As to the idea of having a rifle made to take advantage of the cheap ammo, fine, rebarrel a single shot, but don't expect any US company to build a new gun for this old round. It isn't popular enough in the commercial sense.
Surplus rifles and ammo abound right now (something that wasn't the case during the Cold War years), and since the former Communists are selling them cheap, they are very popular today, especially with beginning shooters without a lot of cash to spend. But the 7.62x54R was made in this country before WWII. It failed the test of the US market. Winchester even made a rifle for it, the Model 95. Although most of them went to Russia, some were sold here. You might try finding one of them, or more likely one of the Browning reproductions, but be prepared to pay alot. Kind of negates against the cheap ammo advantage. I really can't see anyone spending $2,000+ on a rifle shooting cheap corrosive ChiCom surplus ammo in it.
Moisin Nagants and the 7.62x54R are very popular today only because they are cheap. And that ain't gonna last forever. When the supply dries up (through purchase or through UN interference) you will still be able to get ammo, but it will be at about the same cost as most other rounds.
I have nothing against the 7.62x54R, I have two rifles for it, a SVT 40 Tokarev and an M38 Moisin Nagant. But to expect US makers to do any more than a limited run chambering (at the most) is wishful thinking.
Also, while there is still surplus ammo for the .30-06, it is no longer considered exclusively a GI surplus caliber, being one of the premier civilian sporting rounds.
The simple fact of the matter is, no one makes a 7.62x54R sporting rifle in the US today, because it would not sell. Or sell more than a handful, which would not be enough to justify the cost of the tooling. Those few people who want a new rifle in this caliber simply buy something from overseas.
There is no US made action which is easily converted to 7.62x54R other than some single shots. It isn't worth the cost.
As to the idea of having a rifle made to take advantage of the cheap ammo, fine, rebarrel a single shot, but don't expect any US company to build a new gun for this old round. It isn't popular enough in the commercial sense.
Surplus rifles and ammo abound right now (something that wasn't the case during the Cold War years), and since the former Communists are selling them cheap, they are very popular today, especially with beginning shooters without a lot of cash to spend. But the 7.62x54R was made in this country before WWII. It failed the test of the US market. Winchester even made a rifle for it, the Model 95. Although most of them went to Russia, some were sold here. You might try finding one of them, or more likely one of the Browning reproductions, but be prepared to pay alot. Kind of negates against the cheap ammo advantage. I really can't see anyone spending $2,000+ on a rifle shooting cheap corrosive ChiCom surplus ammo in it.
Moisin Nagants and the 7.62x54R are very popular today only because they are cheap. And that ain't gonna last forever. When the supply dries up (through purchase or through UN interference) you will still be able to get ammo, but it will be at about the same cost as most other rounds.
I have nothing against the 7.62x54R, I have two rifles for it, a SVT 40 Tokarev and an M38 Moisin Nagant. But to expect US makers to do any more than a limited run chambering (at the most) is wishful thinking.
The Deer Hunter
Member
It would be cool to have a repro mosin, or a rifle based on the mosin action like Remington did with the Mauser 98.
Cosmoline
Member
Ironically, Remington has already made Mosin-Nagants. But I don't think they kept the tooling.
Cosmoline
Member
S&B, Privi, Norma, Lapua, Wolf, Barnaul, Silver Bear, and others all produce SP ammo.
rockstar.esq
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"Some very very popular rounds headspace on the rim. And their accuracy is not in question. Both the .30-30 Winchester and the .45-70 Govt. (to name just two) headspace on the rim. Nearly all rounds intended for revolvers also headpace on the rim. Factories have no trouble making these rounds, and making them within accepted accuracy standards."
You're kidding right? Neither the 30-30 nor the .45-70 are used for sub MOA shooting. The BCPR shooters doing 1000yd shooting with 45-70's are superbly built match quality rifles shooting superb handloads with custom cast bullets. Which is neither military surplus, nor are they currently made "common" rifles.
Like it or not, a rifle cartridge hasn't been introduced in the last 9 years that didn't have a focused advertising campaign revolving around sub MOA accuracy performance.
What can be done with the 7.62x54R is to have the chamber cut to headspace on the shoulder thereby increasing the cartridges capacity to self center in the chamber. Similar efforts were made for belted magnums like the .300 winchester magnum which like all belted magnums was originally intended to headspace off the the belt.
Adding the comment about revolvers isn't relevant because 1) This is the rifle forum, 2) The handgun cartridge firing rifles aren't tackdrivers either.
As for the 6.5 swede Timbokhan mentioned, Remington STILL loads for that cartridge, hence the rifles weren't built with strictly military surplus ammo in mind. The 30-06 is likewise a continually produced cartridge therefore rifles so chambered were never and are never built strictly to capitalize on military surplus ammo.
You're kidding right? Neither the 30-30 nor the .45-70 are used for sub MOA shooting. The BCPR shooters doing 1000yd shooting with 45-70's are superbly built match quality rifles shooting superb handloads with custom cast bullets. Which is neither military surplus, nor are they currently made "common" rifles.
Like it or not, a rifle cartridge hasn't been introduced in the last 9 years that didn't have a focused advertising campaign revolving around sub MOA accuracy performance.
What can be done with the 7.62x54R is to have the chamber cut to headspace on the shoulder thereby increasing the cartridges capacity to self center in the chamber. Similar efforts were made for belted magnums like the .300 winchester magnum which like all belted magnums was originally intended to headspace off the the belt.
Adding the comment about revolvers isn't relevant because 1) This is the rifle forum, 2) The handgun cartridge firing rifles aren't tackdrivers either.
As for the 6.5 swede Timbokhan mentioned, Remington STILL loads for that cartridge, hence the rifles weren't built with strictly military surplus ammo in mind. The 30-06 is likewise a continually produced cartridge therefore rifles so chambered were never and are never built strictly to capitalize on military surplus ammo.
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