700X in 45ACP - handloads for the 1911

[Archym]

First of all, I'll type out the THR Liability Waiver for posting load data (way under maximum suggested by published sources, don't worry) on the forums.

Second, I'll give a tip of the hat to Frogo207 - the many posts he's had regarding 700x in good ol 230gn FMJ round nose got me to post this. Thank you sir.

I recently came into possession of a Tisas GI reproduction of the tried and true 1911 A1 due to a ridiculously good deal. I wanted to see if I could produce a good load with "Standard" 230 grain full metal jacket ball ammunition. I was amazed by the accuracy and the reliability from the first time shooting a gun right out of the box that had such "Basic" sights and a No-Frills build.

I broke 'er in with 10 shots of stored Winchester factory White Box and almost stopped. It shot almost, if not equally as well as an Iver Johnson Eagle XL Long-slide with full target sights at 10, 15, and 20 yards. Not quite the revered Clover Leaf, but darned close. Then I switched to the handloaded rounds made from 700x powder and Winchester 230 grain FMJ round nose. Wow.

Lyman's 49th Edition starts the minimum load with that boolit at 3.6 grains of 700x. That seemed kinda light to me. The Hodgdon's web site starts their minimum at 4.4 grains. I calculated the average and started in the middle and then went up by .2 grains for the next experimental four round loads. I was amazed to see that with this brand new, no frills, GI edition gun shooting at paper targets that the initial "right in the middle of the lowest" loads put 4 rounds, then another 4 rounds, then the next 16 in a hole that tore the center (almost, slightly left) out of the target at 15 yards.

I understand that there are those that don't like 700x due to loading/filling issues. But out of a Lyman's Brass Smith I had very little trouble. Granted, I'm kinda persnickety and I measure/trickle each and every one of the first 20 rounds I load until I'm d*mn sure it's accurate within +/- .1 of a grain. (Reloading components are too expensive and rare to NOT be precise)

I'm sold. 700x and good ol 230grain FMJ Ball out of even the most basic Turkish made 1911 has me wishing I could make it to the range more than just once a month.

I realize the ideas, purpose, and wisdom of a thread like this have been beat to death in other posts, but I didn't want to hijack anything or resurrect a previous thread. Consider it new appreciation for the tried and true.

Y'all be safe. And even though I'm not a big believer, I still *pray* that some day primers will be less that $.10 a piece.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

First of all, I'll type out the THR Liability Waiver for posting load data (way under maximum suggested by published sources, don't worry) on the forums.

Second, I'll give a tip of the hat to Frogo207 - the many posts he's had regarding 700x in good ol 230gn FMJ round nose got me to post this. Thank you sir.

I recently came into possession of a Tisas GI reproduction of the tried and true 1911 A1 due to a ridiculously good deal. I wanted to see if I could produce a good load with "Standard" 230 grain full metal jacket ball ammunition. I was amazed by the accuracy and the reliability from the first time shooting a gun right out of the box that had such "Basic" sights and a No-Frills build.

I broke 'er in with 10 shots of stored Winchester factory White Box and almost stopped. It shot almost, if not equally as well as an Iver Johnson Eagle XL Long-slide with full target sights at 10, 15, and 20 yards. Not quite the revered Clover Leaf, but darned close. Then I switched to the handloaded rounds made from 700x powder and Winchester 230 grain FMJ round nose. Wow.

Lyman's 49th Edition starts the minimum load with that boolit at 3.6 grains of 700x. That seemed kinda light to me. The Hodgdon's web site starts their minimum at 4.4 grains. I calculated the average and started in the middle and then went up by .2 grains for the next experimental four round loads. I was amazed to see that with this brand new, no frills, GI edition gun shooting at paper targets that the initial "right in the middle of the lowest" loads put 4 rounds, then another 4 rounds, then the next 16 in a hole that tore the center (almost, slightly left) out of the target at 15 yards.

I understand that there are those that don't like 700x due to loading/filling issues. But out of a Lyman's Brass Smith I had very little trouble. Granted, I'm kinda persnickety and I measure/trickle each and every one of the first 20 rounds I load until I'm d*mn sure it's accurate within +/- .1 of a grain. (Reloading components are too expensive and rare to NOT be precise)

I'm sold. 700x and good ol 230grain FMJ Ball out of even the most basic Turkish made 1911 has me wishing I could make it to the range more than just once a month.

I realize the ideas, purpose, and wisdom of a thread like this have been beat to death in other posts, but I didn't want to hijack anything or resurrect a previous thread. Consider it new appreciation for the tried and true.

Y'all be safe. And even though I'm not a big believer, I still *pray* that some day primers will be less that $.10 a piece.

It’s like finding the true joy of home baked bread and hand churned butter. Simple, honest, good. Glad you tried it out and glad you liked it. Next you’ll need to try 200gr LSWC with 700X. Just a dab’ll do ya’.

 

[Archym]

I still miss that old Winchester AA452 powder. I never thought that oddball steel canister of "shotgun" powder would ever get empty. 700x is about the only powder around my parts that is rarely/readily available and under $30 for a 14oz plastic bottle. It sure works great in 38spl and .41 though.

200grain CLSW in powder coated variety from DG (Wisconsin) is the normal boolit of choice for 45acp. I'll have to see if 700x shoots as well as they do with Titegroup.

BTW, GeoDude...the Avatar is CLASSIC. Nicely done.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have been loading 700-X in 45 ACP since the 1980’s. It is my favorite load for 45 ACP.

I just noticed that Hodgdon lists 4.9 gr 700-X with 230 gr RN bullets which is a bit lower than what I have been loading at. I guess I need to evaluate my loads. Over the decades, the max load has neen reduced by the powder manufacturer (first IMR now Hodgdon).

I do not find 700-X difficult to meter but it does have a bit larger variability versus fine grain powders.

I use 700-X in several other cartidges such as 380ACP and 44 Special.

Flake powders do not concern me relative to consistent loading. I use alot of Unique as well besides 700-X.

As far as the complaint that 700-X is “flaming dirt”. I do not expect to eat off the barrel after firing 700-X and after firing 700-X, my 1911’s are easy to clean.

 

[entropy]

I loaded a ton of .38 Spl. in the 80's with 700-X, as well as 12 ga. Trap loads. I did load a few boxes with 700-X in .45 ACP for my dad back then, I didn't own a .45 myself at the time. But when I got back into reloading shotguns shells about 5 years ago, I loaded some of the 700-X I'd picked up for that (as well as some Green Dot) in 230 FMJ GI clone loads.
Metering has never been a concern for me, I use Lee scoops and a scale. I've never worried about powders being dirty or not.

 

[Archym]

I didn't notice anything being Dirty or Sooty. Spent shells looked normal. There might have been one or two white flakes down towards then end of the bushing. Otherwise, out of the three guns I had to clean after Tuesday's range day I would say the ol GI 45 was the easiest and quickest to clean. I put maybe 20 rounds of factory though it. Then another 30(ish) of the work up loads with 700x. The rest were pet loads of Bullseye which were probably the "dirtiest" because they were really lightly loaded. Heck, I might just dedicate the whole jar of 700x to my 911's and keep the TiteGroup for the revolver target loads.

 

[joneb]

If I could only get 700X to meter well it would trump W-231 for me.

 

[cfullgraf]

If I could only get 700X to meter well it would trump W-231 for me.

I hear you.

I was having trouble getting poor variability in loads for my j-frame 38 Special and I ended up with a load using W231. It does meter well. My flake powder choices did not work well for this application.

My back-up, alternate load for 45 ACP/230 RN bullets is with Accurate #5. Another fine grain powder that meters well.

I've worked with flake powders enough over the past several decades that I get good results with my reloads.

But, fine grain powders like W231 and Accurate #5 do make life easier.

The bottom line for me, I use the powder and and load that gives me the results I am looking for. I am confident in the performance of my powder measures to give me reliable loads that i am looking for with the powder of choice.

With all that said, Any good powder measure will provide good, consistent loads if the operator does his job.

Flake powders such as Unique and 700--X or stick powders for rifle cartridges need a different operating procedure to get consistent powder charges.

Bottom line, there are lots fo good powders out there. Some meter better than others but the results of the "poor metering" powders can be outstanding if one learns the best method to providing, good, constant loads while reloading.

In any case, I had been loading 5.0 grains of 700-X with 230 grain RN bullets. This is a bit higher per Hodgdon data so I guess I need to re-evaluate my load.

In the past few years, IMR 700-X was marketed under the IMR label and now is marked under the Hodgdon label. I'm sure this means that the powder is manufactured at a different plant with slightly different burn characteristics.

Part of reloading is keeping up with the reloadiing data recommended by various reloading sites, particularly the manufacturers of the powder.

 

[FROGO207]

Well guys I am using my settled load of 4.8 grains of 700X forever. I also am using up several of the metal kegs that I bought for a deal way back in the late 70's. So that's the data I stick with. New production propellant should use new data. I use an Ideal 55 measure to dispense the loads and when adjusted the velocity changes on my ammo are consistantly 40 FPS or less. I really could get along with 700X, Promo, and 4227 for all my handgun ammo.
Some time ago I noticed cfullgraf and I seemed to share the same love for 700X and I think that at a book max load it'll burn as clean as anything else out there so why reinvent the wheel LOL.

 

[Jim Watson]

Good for you all.
I had all manner of erratic metering of 700X in CH and Dillon measures. I finally reasonable consistency by putting a vibrator on the hopper. I STILL got a "blooper" 9mm round out of that last half pound. I have a little of that ammo left and will be glad when it is gone.

Correction, the single measure that disappointed with 700X was a Redding, not RCBS.

 

[Bayou52]

700X is also my go-to fast pistol powder. With it, I load 45acp, 38spl, 380, 9mm. I even use it for lower powered and lower velocity 357.

Metering has not been an issue with the RCBS Uni-Flow powder dispenser having the small volume cylinder installed.

Bayou52

 

[vaalpens]

I calculated the average and started in the middle and then went up by .2 grains for the next experimental four round loads. I was amazed to see that with this brand new, no frills, GI edition gun shooting at paper targets that the initial "right in the middle of the lowest" loads put 4 rounds, then another 4 rounds, then the next 16 in a hole that tore the center (almost, slightly left) out of the target at 15 yards.

Thanks for sharing your load information. I assume the accurate load you tested is a 4.0gr load. What COL did you load it to and which primer did you use?

I have tested 700x loads with a 230gr FMJRN, but started at 4.3gr. I'll probably load up a few more loads and start lower and also test my accurate load again. This was the most accurate load I tested using 700X at 15 yards:
45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Winchester
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, 700X, 4.4gr, CCI300
Average: 687
ES: 23
SD: 10.6
Force: 241
PF: 158
Velocities: 679, 695, 696, 673, 694
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.62"
Test Date: 10/21/2018

 

[Archym]

Sorry I haven't been around to respond more positively. That's a d*mn fine group Vaalpens. Just goes to show you what the good ol Flamin Cornflakes is still capable of.

This might not night be the right place to post it, but for those considering purchasing a GFORCE/Balistik Defense 1911, buyer beware. I don't have pictures to post up yet, but I will soon. If those out there in the community think there is a better place to post them, please feel free to direct me.

I thought I had a good deal on a Stainless Steel 1911. Turns out, I got what I paid for. Which is baffling given the rock-solid performance of a "USGI" version of a Tisas I bought just shy of a year ago.

If you have the offer to buy a GFORCE/Balistik Defense 1911, please reconsider. It's a great base to build/rebuild a custom 1911, but it is NOT a viable option for a reliable, even semi accurate 1911 service side arm. The assembly is slip-shod at best and the internals are "Bargain basement" at best.


Again, my apologies if this is posted in the wrong area.

​

 

[Archym]

Well guys I am using my settled load of 4.8 grains of 700X forever. I also am using up several of the metal kegs that I bought for a deal way back in the late 70's. So that's the data I stick with. New production propellant should use new data. I use an Ideal 55 measure to dispense the loads and when adjusted the velocity changes on my ammo are consistantly 40 FPS or less. I really could get along with 700X, Promo, and 4227 for all my handgun ammo.
Some time ago I noticed cfullgraf and I seemed to share the same love for 700X and I think that at a book max load it'll burn as clean as anything else out there so why reinvent the wheel LOL.

Amen. "700X forever" for all my 5" 1911's.

 

[243winxb]

I use 700X in 45 acp with my cast 200 gr BB lswc. Had a lot left over from my shotgun days. Does ok.
My target load uses Bullseye Powder.

 

[N555]

First of all, I'll type out the THR Liability Waiver for posting load data (way under maximum suggested by published sources, don't worry) on the forums.

Second, I'll give a tip of the hat to Frogo207 - the many posts he's had regarding 700x in good ol 230gn FMJ round nose got me to post this. Thank you sir.

I recently came into possession of a Tisas GI reproduction of the tried and true 1911 A1 due to a ridiculously good deal. I wanted to see if I could produce a good load with "Standard" 230 grain full metal jacket ball ammunition. I was amazed by the accuracy and the reliability from the first time shooting a gun right out of the box that had such "Basic" sights and a No-Frills build.

I broke 'er in with 10 shots of stored Winchester factory White Box and almost stopped. It shot almost, if not equally as well as an Iver Johnson Eagle XL Long-slide with full target sights at 10, 15, and 20 yards. Not quite the revered Clover Leaf, but darned close. Then I switched to the handloaded rounds made from 700x powder and Winchester 230 grain FMJ round nose. Wow.

Lyman's 49th Edition starts the minimum load with that boolit at 3.6 grains of 700x. That seemed kinda light to me. The Hodgdon's web site starts their minimum at 4.4 grains. I calculated the average and started in the middle and then went up by .2 grains for the next experimental four round loads. I was amazed to see that with this brand new, no frills, GI edition gun shooting at paper targets that the initial "right in the middle of the lowest" loads put 4 rounds, then another 4 rounds, then the next 16 in a hole that tore the center (almost, slightly left) out of the target at 15 yards.

I understand that there are those that don't like 700x due to loading/filling issues. But out of a Lyman's Brass Smith I had very little trouble. Granted, I'm kinda persnickety and I measure/trickle each and every one of the first 20 rounds I load until I'm d*mn sure it's accurate within +/- .1 of a grain. (Reloading components are too expensive and rare to NOT be precise)

I'm sold. 700x and good ol 230grain FMJ Ball out of even the most basic Turkish made 1911 has me wishing I could make it to the range more than just once a month.

I realize the ideas, purpose, and wisdom of a thread like this have been beat to death in other posts, but I didn't want to hijack anything or resurrect a previous thread. Consider it new appreciation for the tried and true.

Y'all be safe. And even though I'm not a big believer, I still *pray* that some day primers will be less that $.10 a piece.

You can get small pistol primers right now for well under 10 cents if you buy ginex on line from republic ammunition.
I ordered 3 cases and got them for about 6 cents after sales tax, shipping and hazmat.
I adopted small primer 45acp brass several years ago when no one wanted it.
Large pistol primers are still about 10 cents each of you can find them.
LPP brass definitely isn't worth paying double for primers.

Also if you have trouble finding 700x I have ran about 4.5gr of WST under a 230gr fmj and get great accuracy. It also cycles my gun just fine with a 12lb spring.