75gr A-MAX OAL

[tikkat3]

Does anyone out there load A-MAX in .223 REM? If so, what OALs are you getting when seating just off the lands?

My Tikka T3 magazine seems especially short, as even the 55gr V-MAX bullets that I load cannot be seated close to the lands if they are to fit in the magazine. I suspect the larger A-MAX will cause problems, but would appreciate any help you guys can give.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[P0832177]

Each gun is a rule unto itself. Buy the tool and take the measurements. There is no way around it! :banghead:

 

[hagar]

Most highpower shooters load them 2.45 - 2.50 oal, shoot them single loaded, and use a Wylde chamber which is haflway between the 5.56 and 223 standard. Load a dummy round to this length, smoke it with a candle or something, and insert it to the chamber. You should be able to see the rifling marks on the bullet. Keep seating it a little deeper and repeating the process until you don't see any rifling marks on the bullet, and you will have a fair idea of how long you can load it. I suspect they will shoot good loaded to 2.26, IF the case has a good grip on the bullet.

 

[mc223]

2.26 will put the ogive in the case which severly limits powder capacity. Accuracy will suck. I have loaded the 75 A-Max into the lands. Get the Stoney Point tool. Or follow the above post. Work your loads up cautiously when seating to the lands.

 

[Sam Adams]

HAGAR

Load a dummy round to this length, smoke it with a candle or something, and insert it to the chamber. You should be able to see the rifling marks on the bullet. Keep seating it a little deeper and repeating the process until you don't see any rifling marks on the bullet, and you will have a fair idea of how long you can load it.

Forgive my ignorance, but I've never loaded anything but "standard" (i.e. what's printed in a reloading manual) length rounds. I know that a lot of precision shooters will (depending on their own rifle, of course) load so that the bullet is 0.02" or 0.03" off of the lands. Would it be correct to say that using your method, one should find the exact length that the rifling ceases to appear on the smoked bullet, and to then back it off another 0.02" or so?

Thanks for your input - if this is the answer, it'll save me a lot of time in finding the best length for my ammo for precision guns.

 

[tikkat3]

Thanks for your thoughts. I have no problem in measuring the bullets up for the ideal seating. My problem is different. Before investing in the bullets, which might not work with my rifle/magazine configuration, I wanted your experience to see what average OAL you seated to.

My magazine will take 2.218" max. Anyone who has a Tikka T3 (certainly in .223) will know that single feeding rounds into the chamber is a nightmare - the chamber is so far forward and the ejection port so small that it is a real hit and miss effort to try and individually load a round. Although the Tikka magazine size is universal for all calibres, each group of calibres (S-.223/.222; M-.22-250, .243, .308; L-.25-06, .30-06 etc), the internal rear wall of the magazine is at a different length for the different groups. At the same time, the next size up for me (M) will not hold a .223 case, it slips out as the top lip of the magazine is not narrow enough. This leaves me with either a custom job (expensive) or an aftermarket magazine (cannot find one!).

For me it is short sighted of Tikka to produce a rifle with such a tight twist rate, but not build the magazines capable of taking the weight of bullets that perform well in the same rifle.

 

[ocabj]

My magazine will take 2.218" max. Anyone who has a Tikka T3 (certainly in .223) will know that single feeding rounds into the chamber is a nightmare - the chamber is so far forward and the ejection port so small that it is a real hit and miss effort to try and individually load a round.

The 75gr A-Max won't for you if you aren't willing to single load. Mag length in the AR is 2.250"-2.260" and the A-Max will not seat to mag length. If you try to seat the A-Max to mag length in the AR, there will be nearly no neck tension holding the bullet since the ogive will be far below the neck.

Since 2.218" is max COL for you, then you're limited to stuff below 75gr. The Sierra 77gr Match King is the heaviest non-VLD style bullet you can use in the AR, but I'm not sure if 2.218" will be too short. You can give it a whirl.

Take a look at the Berger 73gr Match BT and possibly the Hornady 75gr BTHP.

Is the Tikka a push feed or controlled feed bolt? I've never handled a Tikka, so I'm puzzled in how single round feeding is difficult.

 

[tikkat3]

In the Tikka the bolt pushes about the top third / quarter of the round out of the mag into the chamber. The mag spring/lip supports seem to give enough tension to keep the round running straight into the breech.

Once fully chambered, the case of the cartridge is almost (slightly guessing here as I do not have the rifle close at hand) a full case length away from the ejection port / front of the magazine. The ejection port is so narrow that I cannot get a finger through it to touch a chambered (bolt withdrawn) round.

To try to illustrate the problem, go to http://www.tikka.fi/. Click on the link for "T3 Rifles (top left) Then go down the menu to "Lite". You should see an image of a T3 Lite with the bolt closed.

To the front of the bolt/ejection port between the ejection port and the barrel proper is a piece of metal into which the bolt locks. The rear of the chamber where the case head/bolt-face meet is all the way along this piece of metal, just short of the barrel itself. Difficult to explain, but from the image you can see it is a long way forward of the front of the magazine.

This is why single loading is so difficult with .223. I understand it is quite easy with longer cartridges (.270 for example). The longer cartridges seem to bridge the gap between magazine and chamber better. The shorts (.222 and .223) are not long enough to chamber without magazine support and "drop" off so that the bolt shove them into the wall/lip short of the chamber itself.

I hope this gives an example of the Tikka problem! I have asked for advice in modifying the magazine from the experts on the gunsmith section of the forum.

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

Confusing measurements you posted my friend

I have just purchased a Tikka T3 lite stainless and using a
Stoney Point tool with a Honaday 60gr. V-Max am showing
cartridge OAL to measure 2.290 in. with the bullet just touching the lands and the inside measure of the box style
removeable clip at 3.010 with calipers . I loaded 4 dummy
rounds at 2.288 in. and they fed fine in my rifle. You posted the chamber spec for your Tikka at 2.218 in. which is seriously short of the SAAMI spec of 2.260 in. max COAL
for the .223 cartridge. I am just now working up new loads
with this bullet with the initial conception being able to
seat them close to the lands ( .005 - .010 in. ) which will
seat the bullet base right to the base of the neck where the dattum line of the neck and shoulder meet allowing me full powder capacity should I need it. I would expect the 75gr. A-Max to indeed set deeper as it is a long bullet
for its weight but there are lots of good powders with lower case volume that should work fine . I have read several of
your postings and recognize your dilemma of being fairly
isolated in the U.K. and needing to try to get it right and
not have to "buy it to try it" hit and miss as we here in the U.S.A. so often do . I highly recommend you invest in a
set of Stoney Point OAL and Bullet Comarator tools. They
will save you money and time at the reloading bench. When this is done you should be able to contact most of
the bullet manufacturers on the web and get bullet length
measurements from the base to the ogive ( taper point ) as well as OAL and avoid a lot of "buy to try" . I will be
watching your new posts and hope to swap some good
recepies with you, not much Tikka chatter out there !