77/22 .22 Hornet

[rcmodel]

Has anyone tried Remington 6 1/2 primers, or Sm Pistol primers in your Hornet?

Seems like the small case & small charge might benefit from a less enthusiastic primer then a SM rifle primer maybe?

rc

 

[Walkalong]

That is why I am using Fed 200's instead of 205's. I am out of Rem SR primers. Pistol primers would probably be fine with the low pressures Lil' Gun gives in .22 Hornet.

This O.A.L. will fit the mag, and has light enough neck tension so the rifling actually seats the bullet back to around 1.777 O.A.L.

That may cause erratic seating depth -- the action itself is not designed as a bullet seater.

An excellent point that I have considered since I got home.

Originally I figured since the neck tension was so light, they would all push back the same, but I may have been wrong.

 

[rangerruck]

... Man I am following this thread... really can't wait to see how it turns out.
looking for the smaller primers effort, and so far, it seems to really like the 40 grainers, which is a bit of a surprise to me, what is the lightest bullet you have tried so far? Also, where you able to get a bit of some reloader 17 powder yet?
Very interested in that powder, to see how it compares to lil gun, in the hornets. So far, just from dudes I have heard from, it is close, with a a nudge going to the reloader 17.

 

[rangerruck]

By the way, your printout of the trigger group change, looks better than the origional , on the screen version, itself!!!! awesome.

 

[KenWP]

I have used 4198 for years. I bought it for my 45-70 and then changed powders so it could be a while before I have the need to buy anything different. I found the 22 hornet works great for bigger tougher cows instead of a 22LR.

 

[Walkalong]

I mentioned earlier in the thread that Lil' Gun filled the case almost to the top, and wondered, even though it is ball powder, if a drop tube would settle it any.

I decided to make a "powder drop bushing" for my powder set up on my LNL. It is the old drop tube from my Projector with a new linkage. I also wanted to make a new, shorter "powder drop bushing" (my own made up term) for most pistol use because my old homemade one hung out real far and now that I take the whole assembly off (using an LNL bushing), it hangs out too far and is at risk of being hit when putting the assembly back on the press. I did nick the little end of it one time. So I made that one first, and it turned out well I think. I used it today to load some test .38's.

.380/9MM & up powder drop bushings. Old long one & new short one

In the press

Next I wanted to make one for .22 Hornet. I wanted it to be long so the powder would have to go through a "drop tube" sort of, and see if it settled the powder any. It should work for most .22 calibers just fine with ball or fine stick powder, but I intend to make one like it with out the approximately 1/2" long .204 diameter drop tube built in. It will be less than 1/16" vs 1/2".

.22 Hornet powder drop bushing

Then I made one for 7.62 X 39/.308/30-06, and one for .32 pistol.

I have enough brass to make one more. Guess I'll have to go buy another foot of brass.

 

[Walkalong]

I also loaded some more 35 & 40 Gr V-Max bullets using the Redding sizer with a .237 bushing. A good bit more neck tension than when using the .239 bushing. I also used Fed 205 primers instead of Fed 200.

So yea, I changed all kind of things.

 

[rangerruck]

... I know you have worked hard to do all this, but it is even harder to put into words, to decribe how impressed I am by all the fine work, attention to detail, the creativeness on building, ... ' okay, what do i need to make next...' even the fine work of the photography. It is as good as any tech book out there, on loading , really. even the items in the pics, are so bright and clean.
Great job, just fabulous , really.
It's going to be great when you are done, and have some final group pics of all the hardware, and then of course the targets, and groups, and the rifle itself, when it is all said and done. this has to be a top 5 all time thread.
right up there with any top 5 from the movie, High Fidelity.

 

[tango2echo]

+1 to what rangerruck said.

This should be a sticky in reloading for the .22 Hornet.

t2e

 

[GooseGestapo]

I'm sorry if you mentioned it, but I didn't know if you stated what brass you're using?

I've played off and on with the Hornet for many years. I've had excellent groups, and frustratingly dismal groups for what was bizarre reasons.

I've settled on the following "patterns" and get consistent results now.

1. Hodgdon Lil'Gun for bullet weights 40gr and heavier. As you mentioned, a 120fps variation is not unusal with the Hornet with bullets lighter than 40gr wtih this powder. I've also found that larger powder charges than that given don't result in higher velocities uniformly, and may result in larger deviations. Don't ask me why! I've seen this with the .357mag as well. 17.8gr and 158gr bullet in the .357 is my "load". Tried as high as 19.0gr but results weren't as good.....

2. I use Small Pistol Primers. Considering the case volumn, pressures, thickness of brass, ect., ect. the Hornet is essentially a "Magnum Pistol Cartridge".

3. Lot# and of course mfg, of brass is a consideration. I "bench rest" uniform all my Hornet brass to include reaming the flash-holes, uniforming the primer pockets, and neck turning the brass. However, in the future I will simply sort the cases by weight and turn the necks for uniformity.

4. If possible, get some Norma, Lapua, or Sellier&Bellot, YES, S&B brass. The most accurate brass I've ever used is some S&B brass I got from some factory ammo I tried. I had to turn down my decapping pins to fit the tiny flash-holes on this brass, BUT, it gives much smaller deviations. After "lightly" turning the necks to remove some of the "high spots", and loading my favorite loads, I can expect sub-moa groups "on command". Very difficult with the Hornet, IME.

My favorite loads are as follows:

1. Sierra 40gr "Varminter" HP @ 1.780"OAL (fits my Ruger 77/22's magazine), 12.5gr Hod. Lil'Gun, Winchester SP primer. Either S&B or Winchester brass. Nets 3,000fps and Sub-MOA "usually". Have taken more deer with this load than anything else, Usually on depredation permits. Dropped 4, sequentially in 30 sec. one evening at dusk. Deer couldn't figure where I was shooting from and essentially ran back and forth across field like "a squirrel in the road". All were "head" shots, one shot, DRT. Works for me, YMMV.

2. Remington 33gr or Hornady 35gr V-Max. @ 1.755" (Touches lands on my rifle). #2400 @ 7.8gr. Small Pistol primer, Nets 2,300fps and essentially duplicates the .22wrm load. Quiet and exceptionally accurate.

3. Same as #2, except for 8.6gr of #2400. Duplicates factory V-max load in "MY" rifle. Velocity runs ~3,100fps.

4. Hornady 50gr SX, @ 1.855" 0AL (dosent' fit magazine). Acc#1680 @ 10.8gr. Winchester "MATCH PREP'ED" brass, WSP primer. I fired a 0.378" 5-shot group one evening, and had witnesses. Even with exact same 5 cases I have't been able to duplicate it. Velocity is only about 2,480fps. Have shot many 0.6-0.9" groups with this load, however.

5. Lyman #.224-415; 49.5gr SemiPt FNGC with air-cooled W/W alloy @0.225", and Hornady Gas-check. 6.7gr SR4759. Gives 2,300fps and near MOA groups at 100yds. Same bullet w/o gc, nor sized, and tumble lubed w/ Lee liquid alox over 2.2gr of Bulleye nearly duplicates .22lr. Not much louder than an air rifle. Not much more expensive either.

6. Crossman .22cal airgun pellets hand-seated skirt down, over a CCI small pistol or small rifle "MAGNUM" primer. Killed a "gazillion" pigeons while in college in the mid '70s from my Apartment balcony off a power-line with a T/C Contender w/2.5X scope. Duplicates a good "pump-up" air rifle.

Did I mention that the Hornet is one of my favorite rifles/cartridge!.....

 

[Walkalong]

Excellent suggestions.

I am having fun playing with my newest Hornet. You, and many others, have shot way more .22 Hornet than I have. I appreciate the input.

I also used to download the Hornet, but I used 700X. Great little squirrel loads using 40 Gr Sierra HP's.

I'll have to try pistol primers. As I posted, I went up in primer strength this try.

Since this rifle has shown it can shoot well under MOA, better brass is definitely worth a try. It has exceeded my expectations for a stock Ruger 77/22 with a pencil barrel. AC

 

[Daizee]

L'il Gun needs a fair amount of bullet "friction" to build up enough pressure to burn properly. It may be that you'd need to size the whole neck, or at least the entire part that grips the bullet.

I've seen the same thing in .357.

-Daizee

 

[rangerruck]

Now I have heard it all, a 22 cal pellet loaded over a primer! what were your ranges, and what was your holdover, and did you chrony any of those " loads.."? What was the damage to the birds?

 

[rangerruck]

Daizee, when you say friction between the neck and the bullet, do you mean those two things only; as in uniform tightness from the rim on down, the length of the bullet, or is there anything in between there, any lube, powder, etc., just the two elements touching each other?

 

[Lloyd Smale]

my ruger really likes 35 grain vmaxes and 1680. it will shoot that combo into 3/4s of an inch all day long

 

[higene]

22 hornet

Walkalong,

I have worked with 22 Hornet and k-Hornet. I found TC contender a better platform than a Ruger 77/22.

See below for details.

http://www.ct-precision.com/

I hit a coyote in the chest at 85 yds with a K-Hornet, 40 gr jhp and 13 gr 2400. The bullet traversed the length of the critter and left a quarter sized exit wound behind his rib cage. He was still kicking when I got to him (he dropped on the spot). I shot him twice in the neck with a Ruger single six 22 LR and CCI Mini Mags. Both Mini Mags were under the skin on the far side of the critter.

I quit pushing the K-Hornet. I was getting case splitting (horizontal) and case head seperation on the second or third reload of the cases.

4o gr hps and 45 gr jsp at about 2600 - 2700 do just fine for me (really I load for accuracy and don't give a Beep about speed).


Good work and God bless

Higene

 

[Walkalong]

I found TC contender a better platform than a Ruger 77/22

I'll be honest, the 77/22 has surprised me. I am pleasantly surprised to be sure.

 

[rangerruck]

I would agree with you on the t/c, but then again, man having the ruger pencil bbl, or the cz in 22 hornet, both of them, are just such beautiful classics, they look as if they were made for this round. It's just usually the case, as with Walkalong, that you have to go a long way, to find what your pencil bbl ruger really likes. I wouldn't mind having both in 22 hornet myself, just to have , and the occasional varmint shoot.

 

[Walkalong]

or the cz in 22 hornet

That is what I thought I would get, but ran into too good a deal to pass up on the 77/22. I would still like a full length stock CZ .22 Hornet.

 

[Walkalong]

Total failure today.

I forgot my block to sit under my rear bag, so I had to use a front bag to get the height right. I never really got comfortable with it, and wasn't shooting well. I am going to blame half of it on the mag primers though.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Walkalong;
Thats about how the 77/22 Lt sporter I had would do. Inconsistent. Usually this is the wind playing with the Hornet. A sub moa group will sudden "expand" to 3" with a good gust of wind..... and not always just horizontally.

I usually prefer to shoot fir groups with the Hornet in the evening from about 90min before sunset till sunset. The winds are ususally lighter then.

My 77/22 I have now is the Heavy Bbl. with laminated stock. My LtWt had a poorly cut chamber. Very Loose. Max loads for that chamber were as much as 10% over max with the newer rifle.
The Heavy Bbl has a poorly fitted bolt and I've had to put a wire ring inside the flange of the forward bolt half to eliminate some of the slop. I've often thought of sending back to Ruger, but I'm told they don't really fix it. Just put a new pin in it and send it back with a letter telling you thats just how they are. NOT. Without the "ring", I cant extract fired cases without tapping them out with a rod and hammer..... At first I just thought it was the ammo, but even light cast bullet loads were very difficult extraction because of the excess slop in the bolt, I wasn't getting any "camming" of the bolt lugs to aid extraction... I almost "dumped" the rifle then...

There's a fellow in Conneticut that swages a brass ring onto the bolt, and "fixes" this problem.. He also will set back the barrels and recut your chamber to either a K-Hornet, or a match-Hornet. All I can remember is his first name is Randy.... You can probably find him on www.rimfirecentral.com.

RE: pellet w/primer. It was back in the '70's, so cheap chrono's weren't to be had. I'd guess 4o0-600fps. Trajectory was as I said, about like a Crossman pump .22cal pellet rifle. I killed pigeons out to about 70-80 feet. I just used the bottom post taper of the Multi-X reticle in the T/C "Lobo" scope.

Broke college students have vivid imaginations.... Kinda like using Speer plastic bullets....Where I got the idea.

 

[Rancho Relaxo]

This is such a treasure trove of info on the Hornet. It took me a long time to get a good load for my old Anschutz. For me it came down to Lil'Gun, small pistol primers and crimping the case. I like the idea of a drop tube, I never could seem to get more than 12.5grain in my cases easily.

 

[rangerruck]

Randy, I believe would be Randy of CPC fame, who does a ton of bolt/chamber rework, mostly on 10.22's. Those groups in the pics.... well the hornet is an unforgiving little girly, if you are having an off shooting day, even so much as physically off, a little tensiony, a little shaky, a little muscly, a little breathey, she will let you know.

 

[rangerruck]

Is it correct in assuming that the remmy small pistol primers, would be the smallest centerfire rifle primers out there?

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont usually give loads out on the net but ill make an exception here. the load that shoots hands down the best in my ruger is the 35 vmax with 12.5 grains of 1680 aa and a cci small rifle bench rest primer. Im not a big fan of bench rest primers as i dont think the cost is justified but the hornet is real sensitive due to its small case as to primers and any other primer opens groups up to about double the size. this load will shoot into 3/4s of an inch for 5 shots at a 100 yards in my gun. this is a max load or near max so dont try to go higher. It is also done with only neck sizing the brass and im sure if you full lenght sized pressure would be a tad higher.