7x57 1895 Lowe Mauser loads.

[30-06]

From what I've read best accuracy with the original barrel will be with the heavier RN bullets and pressure should be kept under 45,000 cup.

I'd like to try something that shoots a little flatter, say around 2700 fps. Anyone getting good accuracy with 139/140 gr bullets at that velocity with the original military barrel at safe pressures? I've got IMR 4895, 4064 & 4350 powder and want to stay with one of those if possible. Thanks.

 

[Edarnold]

7x57 in 1895 Mauser

Is the barrel 29 or 30 inches long?, If so, it would be technically possible to get the velocities you want with 140gr., using the suitable slowest burning of your powders (IMR 4064) at acceptable pressures. Should you? Probably not.

The chamber has a lead cut to clear a long round-nosed 175gr. bullet, which means your 140gr. spitzer is going to rattle along quite a ways before it reaches the rifling. Not a situation that enhances accuracy.

Second, while the Germans made some very nice rifles for the military trade in the 19th century, they also had 19th century metallurgy. The great surplus of strength we take for granted in modern actions just isn't there. So if something goes desperately wrong with one of your handloads, you might find bits of the action sticking out of your face.

If it were my gun, I'd hunt up some some heavy gas-check cast bullets and consult the Lyman manual for some pleasant paper-punching loads. Trying to soup up loads for a century+ old gun just puts your guardian angel on overtime. IMHO.

 

[NCsmitty]

If you want to push the envelope on a pre-98 small ring Mauser, you may get away with it, or maybe you won't.
I would suggest trying the start loads listed at www.hodgdon.com, with (I'm guessing) the IMR4350 that you have. It's the slowest burning powder that you list, and should give you 2500+fps with a 140gr spitzer and a decent safety margin. You should be able to tell if the lighter bullets will have potential, just be cautious working up your loads.


NCsmitty

 

[35 Whelen]

The 45,000 CUP pressure threshold (actually it's 46,000)was conjured up by our own SAAMI and internet forums have led us all to believe that 46,001 CUP will violently explode any vintage 7x57. The original loading for the 7x57 averaged a hair over 50,000 CUP. Many manuals, including the Lyman 49th Edition, use old long barreled, '93 and '95 Mauser 7x57's to work up at least part of their data, so they would be a very useful source of information in your case.

35W

 

[30-06]

7x57 1895 Lowe Mauser loads

Thanks to all for the info.

35 Whelan, I just checked my 48th Lyman manual. Their loads appear conservative, none are over 46,000 CUP and it looks like 2600 fps is reachable with 139s but as the barrel on my 95 is 22" maybe not. I'll start low, work up and find out.

As you said, which I hadn't noticed, a 95, 29" barrel Mauser was partially used to work up the loads in this manual and some older manuals.

 

[Slamfire]

The original loads of the 7mm Mauser had a 173 grain bullet going 2200 fps. The 50K psia number also comes from this 1898 vintage report, and who knows if the units Col Whittemore were reading as pressure is traceable or even relevant to today.

Whittemore, J.M. (1899). Report Of Test Of Mauser Arms And Ammunition Relative To Pressures And Velocities.. US Govt.Print.Off


http://books.google.com/books?id=YgFHAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA179#v=onepage&q&f=false


A very good reason why SAAMI loads for these old rifles are low is just because these are very old rifles built out of low grade steels.

This thread has some interesting pictures of receiver lug set back with an 1895.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html

Basically its your head. You can load to whatever load level you want, its your head that is going to be behind them.

 

[35 Whelen]

The original loads of the 7mm Mauser had a 173 grain bullet going 2200 fps. The 50K psia number also comes from this 1898 vintage report, and who knows if the units Col Whittemore were reading as pressure is traceable or even relevant to today.

Whittemore, J.M. (1899). Report Of Test Of Mauser Arms And Ammunition Relative To Pressures And Velocities.. US Govt.Print.Off

You are correct. For all we know the original loads may have run even higher pressures by todays standards.

Let's not turn this into another fear-mongering, peeing contest, OK? Stick to published data, watch for problems, and you'll be OK.

35W

 

[Shadow 7D]

JUST A NOTE
the small rings lack the 3rd lug, and yeah the AMERICAN ammo makers tend to run a bit Lawyer safe, er, slow for the older rounds.

BUT, seen more than a few KABOOMs posted of small rings, would rather not have that.

 

[bobnob]

I just stick to minimum listed Hodgdon loads in my 1897 vintage DWM Mauser. This translates to about 2700 fps for a 150 grainer in the 308 mine has been rebarrelled to. About 43g of AR2208 (Varget).

Still kills deer, pigs, goats, paper targets.

 

[bobnob]

I just stick to minimum listed Hodgdon loads in my 1897 vintage DWM Mauser. This translates to about 2700 fps for a 150 grainer in the 308 mine has been rebarrelled to. About 43g of AR2208 (Varget).

Still kills deer, pigs, goats, paper targets.

Edit to the above, chrono tested that load today, 2600 fps for the 150g with 43g 2208.

Very mild and accurate.

 

[Slamfire]

Early Mausers were proofed at 60 K psia, it was not an operating pressure. Normal pressures were 43 K psia.


This was written by Ludwig Olsen in Rifle Magazine Issue 159 May 1995, Dear Editor pg 10,

You can see a partial pdf of the magazine here:
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri159partial.pdf

This was in response to a question on the 1908 Brazilian Action:

Mauser 98 actions produced by Mauser and DWM were proofed with two loads that produced approximately 1000 atmosphere greater pressure than normal factory rounds. That procedure was in accordance with the 1891 German proof law. Proof pressure for the Mauser 98 in 7 X57 was 4,050 atmospheres (57, 591 psi). Pressure of the normal 7 X 57 factory load with 11.2 gram bullet was given in Mauser’s 1908 patent boot as 3,050 atmosphere, or 43, 371 pounds.

While many Mausers in the 1908 Brazilian category will likely endure pressures considerably in excess of the 4,050 atmospheres proof loads, there might be some setback of the receiver locking shoulder with such high pressures.

Given that the 1891 proof standard was in effect when your 1895 was proofed, I would stick with the appropriate loads. At the time the 7 X 57 was pushing a 173 grain bullet 2200 fps.

 

[bobnob]

You gotta tread carefully however no need to use loads that are so weak that the bullet falls out the end of the barrel surely?

The 30-30 can do as good as 170g at 2200 fps, albeit from a larger bore which reduces pressure.

I always read your posts carefully Slamfire, and you present with authenticity with plenty of knowledge for sure. But the loads I am talking about in my 308 ie a 150 Corelockt at about 2590 fps are so far below anything in a modern manual I am pretty comfy with where I am with this old girl. What are your thoughts? I know there are a lot of variables but I reckon these loads would be lucky to be making 39000cup. I know I have mentioned the rifle before but mine is marked 1897 DWM so I believe that probably makes it an 1895 or 1896 model action?

Maybe the original poster, if he wants a flatter shooter, would be better with a 120 or 130g bullet at a light charge for his trajectory?

 

[Slamfire]

Just look at the manuals and stick to loads about 40K psia.

I have fired thousands of this load in NRA Competition, 38 grains IMR 4895 with a 168 is 38 Kpsia according to lyman 48, my load is 39 grains IMR 4895 and it clocks just at 2450 fps. It shoots very well. I would use this in a 308.

This was fired prone with a sling in a 100 yard reduced match. Twenty shots.

I know I have mentioned the rifle before but mine is marked 1897 DWM so I believe that probably makes it an 1895 or 1896 model action

Since it is pre 1898 it is an earlier action. You can look up action types on the web, there are pictures all over the place on small ring (pre 98) and Mauser 98 actions.

 

[bobnob]

Thanks mate.

 

[DANO 308]

I too have a 7X57 with a 22" barrel sporterized. I first tried some box ammo - 140 gn federal soft points= all over. Then I tried 175 gn Winchester soft points and they seemed to hold about 1" at 100 yds (I only had 3 and one shot i think I yoinked). I loaded 42 gn IMR4350 with 150 gn Nosler BT with Remington 9.5 primers... They were all over the place at 100 yards. I just ordered some 175 gn Speer soft points. They call it a "magnum tip"?? Looks like they are priced right at $33 per 100. They should be here tomorrow and will post the results afterward. I have to agree with Edarnold based on what I've seen thus far, that the heavier round nosed bullets seem to be the only way to go. At least I know that the powder charge is ok.

 

[30-06]

7x57 Lowe Mauser Loads

Thanks Dano and everyone else for the info provided. I recently fireformed some brass in the Lowe, necksized it and checked each piece for headspace and found no headspace problems. I've loaded 175 RNs with IMR 4350, and 140s & 150s with IMR 4895. All are loaded with starting loads from the Lyman manual which should keep pressure well under 45,000 cup. I hope to get to the range next week.