7x57 or 270 or 243?

[hossfly]

We're from the same neck of the woods and truth of the matter is 100 yards is a long shot. In fact, in most of the places I hunted, 50 was a long shot.

But it is fun to shoot tight groups at the range.

 

[mustanger98]

We're from the same neck of the woods and truth of the matter is 100 yards is a long shot. In fact, in most of the places I hunted, 50 was a long shot.

But it is fun to shoot tight groups at the range.

In that case, something short and light like a levergun chambered for a revolver cartridge would be more than enough... or .30-30... while being irrelevant to the original topic. I'm also talking about shooting across open fields when the deer come out late evening.

 

[JumboJVT]

Huh, five pages and no one claimed the 6.5C was better a 270. Amazing

 

[horsey300]

Huh, five pages and no one claimed the 6.5C was better a 270. Amazing

Cuz we already know it and it was irrelevant to the topic.....more so than usual, we're cheering for the .243 and x57 here funniness aside, there's been loads of good information thrown out there already, to the op, the utilitarian in me says the .243 is good to go, but the inner oddball screams that the 7x57 must not be kept in the shadows!

 

[troy fairweather]

I have noticed the creedmoor guys have been more quiet since the 6.5 prc came out, but really all 3 the op listed are versatile.

 

[el Godfather]

Cuz we already know it and it was irrelevant to the topic.....more so than usual, we're cheering for the .243 and x57 here funniness aside, there's been loads of good information thrown out there already, to the op, the utilitarian in me says the .243 is good to go, but the inner oddball screams that the 7x57 must not be kept in the shadows!

I think x57 would get a lot more attention if the factory loads were notched it up to meet what hand loading get out of it.

That would change the equation a lot. May br not being a Winchester or a Remington but a mauser caliber has some part to do with its decline over the years. Just a thought.

 

[mcb]

I think x57 would get a lot more attention if the factory loads were notched it up to meet what hand loading get out of it.

That would change the equation a lot. May br not being a Winchester or a Remington but a mauser caliber has some part to do with its decline over the years. Just a thought.

It would be interesting if they would. On one hand SAAMI pressure limit for 7x57 is only 51 ksi (tranducer) and yet we now many hand-loaders are pushing that to 60ksi or higher. SAAMI is there for a reason and offers certain protections to manufactures that follow it. That said many manufactures load 45/70 way over SAAMI and we think nothing of it. A fair number load 45 Colt over SAAMI and again we don't think much of it.

 

[Robbins290]

By the way, I used the "under-powered" .270 to kill a nice bull moose at 270 yards down a woods road, one shot. Opposite side lung/shoulder.
View attachment 919887

Must have been northern maine. I go up there bird hunting and we see moose all the time. Up near the golden road. I could see harvesting a moose almost 300 yards down some of the roads up there.

 

[Picher]

Must have been northern maine. I go up there bird hunting and we see moose all the time. Up near the golden road. I could see harvesting a moose almost 300 yards down some of the roads up there.

Yeah, we were at the top of a hill and could see both ways, especially far the way I shot. While on stand, had a grouse walk by almost close enough to pat it. Two does also came up on the road behind us within about 50 yards. Two other bulls were calling within a couple hundred yards. It certainly was a hot spot!

The cows were munching on branches about 200 yards away while it was barely getting light. We couldn't see them, so didn't know they were cows until they walked into the road. Fortunately, they went back to the right side before the bull came out for them, so I had a clear shot. He reacted at the hit, but kept walking just out of sight about 5 yards or so from the edge of the road. Fortunately, he went down in a clearing, so it was easy to pull him to the road with the truck.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

It would be interesting if they would. On one hand SAAMI pressure limit for 7x57 is only 51 ksi (tranducer) and yet we now many hand-loaders are pushing that to 60ksi or higher. SAAMI is there for a reason and offers certain protections to manufactures that follow it. That said many manufactures load 45/70 way over SAAMI and we think nothing of it. A fair number load 45 Colt over SAAMI and again we don't think much of it.

CIP limit is 56.5Kpsi for 7X57mm. Take that SAAMI! CIP is also there for a reason, but perhaps in a less litigious environment?

The best option IMO in factory 7X57mm ammo somewhat readily available in the USA has been Norma loaded with their 156 grain Oryx projectile with a published muzzle velocity of 2640 fps, right below the 2660 fps published for most other factory 7X57mm loads with 139 / 140 grain projectiles. However that's still 85 fps less than their 7mm-08 factory ammo loaded with that same 156 grain Oryx projectile with published muzzle velocity of 2725 fps (61Kpsi max).

PPU has different loads for SAAMI vs CIP for different markets, I suppose. Their 2016 catalog is the last English version I've seen that detailed both.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2_9_Sz7MCIswLcZjXHr3Ok

 

[mcb]

CIP limit is 56.5Kpsi for 7X57mm. Take that SAAMI! CIP is also there for a reason, but perhaps in a less litigious environment?

The best option IMO in factory 7X57mm ammo somewhat readily available in the USA has been Norma loaded with their 156 grain Oryx projectile with a published muzzle velocity of 2640 fps, right below the 2660 fps published for most other factory 7X57mm loads with 139 / 140 grain projectiles.

PPU has different loads for SAAMI vs CIP for different markets, I suppose. Their 2016 catalog is the last English version I've seen that detailed both.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2_9_Sz7MCIswLcZjXHr3Ok

Can't directly compare SAAMI to CIP they use fairly different methods for measuring the chamber pressure. That said the CIP loading is probably still "hotter" than the SAAMI version even if the pressure specification was the same due to the measurement differences.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Can't directly compare SAAMI to CIP they use fairly different methods for measuring the chamber pressure. That said the CIP loading is probably still "hotter" than the SAAMI version even if the pressure was the same.

No "probably" about it in both Norma and PPU factory ammo loadings. Notably, no Norma catalog I've seen has different listings for SAAMI spec ammo plus CIP spec ammo in any cartridge. Did you check that out? I don't know of any Youtube videos showing this though.

With PPU it's readily evident in the 8X57JS factory load data.

 

[Jerry M]

Huh, five pages and no one claimed the 6.5C was better a 270. Amazing

I agree.

.270 Win with a 130 grain bullet at 3,121 fps with a max charge of StayBall powder per Hornady Website will kill anything in the lower 48. With velocities a 7X57 (& 6.5 C) can only dream of and with a bullet weight only a .243 could dream of.

.270 Win would be my choice of the ones offered & may others.

Good Luck

Jerry

 

[hossfly]

I'm guessing the number of small ring Mausers in circulation will always keep 7x57 factory loadings light. Truth be told if it weren't for the limitations of those guns, a lot of cartridges might not be as popular as they are today. The 7 Mauser CARTRIDGE is capable of anything most of the others can do. But the old rifles can't handle the loads. I wonder if anyone would have bothered developing the 7 08 if that weren't so.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I agree.

.270 Win with a 130 grain bullet at 3,121 fps with a max charge of StayBall powder per Hornady Website will kill anything in the lower 48. With velocities a 7X57 (& 6.5 C) can only dream of and with a bullet weight only a .243 could dream of.

.270 Win would be my choice of the ones offered & may others.

Good Luck

Jerry

Hodgon load data for 7mm-08 and 130 grain Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail shows a max load muzzle velocity of 3,125 fps with Winchester StaBALL 6.5 powder, and it's not noted as a compressed load. Who knows what a 7X57mm with a modern action (say Zastava LK M70, been around since 1970) could do with a 7mm 130 grain bullet loaded to CIP specs, or same pressure of 59.7Kpsi listed by Hodgdon for that 7mm-08 load? We'll never know from Hodgdon as their 7X57mm load data for Winchester StaBALL 6.5 powder and 130 grain Speer soft point shows 45,300 CUP and 2797 fps, also not noted as a compressed load.

 

[el Godfather]

I'm guessing the number of small ring Mausers in circulation will always keep 7x57 factory loadings light. Truth be told if it weren't for the limitations of those guns, a lot of cartridges might not be as popular as they are today. The 7 Mauser CARTRIDGE is capable of anything most of the others can do. But the old rifles can't handle the loads. I wonder if anyone would have bothered developing the 7 08 if that weren't so.

That said: what about the new rifles that are occasionally offered in 7x57? Why not upgrade their chambers to handle a bit more of an oomph from the + pressure loads?

On top of that, how can test the x57s we have to certify them for higher pressure?

This solves the fading out dilemma of x57.

 

[Picher]

7mm-08, and don't look back! Ballistic twin to the 7x57, slightly more recoil than the 243, and real close to the ballistics of the 270, IN A LIGHT SHORT ACTION PLATFORM!!

In a short, light rifle, the 7mm-08 is a great round! I bedded one with a factory stock that astounded me, making perfect cloverleafs at 100 yards with factory Remington 140 grain Core-Locts!!! Couldn't believe my eyes, but had to. My handloads didn't do as well, but really didn't have the opportunity to tune them to the rifle. The female owner, after several years, is still crazy about the rifle.

 

[Varminterror]

That said: what about the new rifles that are occasionally offered in 7x57? Why not upgrade their chambers to handle a bit more of an oomph from the + pressure loads?

On top of that, how can test the x57s we have to certify them for higher pressure?

There is no need to upgrade chambers or “certify” any modern action. It’s simple. If an action is offered in a Magnum boltface, or is offered in 308win, as an example, it can be safely loaded to the same pressure standards when firing the 7x57. The barrel predominantly cares only about wall thickness and max pressure, and the receiver only cares about case head diameter and max pressure (bolt thrust), such if an action is chambered for the same or a larger diameter cartridge at a higher pressure standard, it is well understood it can be loaded similarly in the 7x57.

This solves the fading out dilemma of x57.

Doing so absolutely does not solve the continually waning popularity of the 7maus.

The 7x57 has never enjoyed broad appeal, in large part due to lacking global trade and subsequently, geopolitical and national biases. In the early era of the 6.5x55 and 7x57 Mausers, there simply was not a sufficiently established global economy to have sustained the foreign cartridges in the US - unfortunately, since the “best idea we had” in the US at the time was a sad ballistic excuse of a cartridge. Global trade accelerated, however, two World Wars drove anti-German sentiment, and of course, in short order following WWII, we saw the advent of the American version, the 7-08.

So in more recent generations less influenced by post-war biases, the decision to adopt the 7x57maus is largely foolish: a buyer must be significantly otherwise motivated to purchase a mid-length cartridge with relatively low rifle, ammo, and brass availability, which requires handloading or boutique/custom ammo to meet the performance of an American designed version which is highly available. So the question really isn’t “why don’t more people buy 7x57’s?” it’s really a question of, “why would they buy a 7x57 over a 7-08?”

Without a sufficiently popular and satisfactory answer to that question, the 7x57 will never do anything except fade more and more. It’ll never disappear, not in the proximal future, but it certainly has no reason to expect a swell any time soon.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

That said: what about the new rifles that are occasionally offered in 7x57? Why not upgrade their chambers to handle a bit more of an oomph from the + pressure loads?

On top of that, how can test the x57s we have to certify them for higher pressure?

This solves the fading out dilemma of x57.

Zastava has been offering their LK (bolt action) M70 rifle since, well, 1970 with 7X57mm Mauser as one of the available options. There have been others. But all this doesn't affect most US factory 7X57mm ammunition. With a few exceptions in imported factory ammunition, getting all the available performance WRT muzzle velocity from a 7X57mm cartridge for use in a rifle with suitable action to safely fire said cartridge load repeatedly is via custom handloading.

 

[el Godfather]

There is no need to upgrade chambers or “certify” any modern action. It’s simple. If an action is offered in a Magnum boltface, or is offered in 308win, as an example, it can be safely loaded to the same pressure standards when firing the 7x57. The barrel predominantly cares only about wall thickness and max pressure, and the receiver only cares about case head diameter and max pressure (bolt thrust), such if an action is chambered for the same or a larger diameter cartridge at a higher pressure standard, it is well understood it can be loaded similarly in the 7x57.



Doing so absolutely does not solve the continually waning popularity of the 7maus.

The 7x57 has never enjoyed broad appeal, in large part due to lacking global trade and subsequently, geopolitical and national biases. In the early era of the 6.5x55 and 7x57 Mausers, there simply was not a sufficiently established global economy to have sustained the foreign cartridges in the US - unfortunately, since the “best idea we had” in the US at the time was a sad ballistic excuse of a cartridge. Global trade accelerated, however, two World Wars drove anti-German sentiment, and of course, in short order following WWII, we saw the advent of the American version, the 7-08.

So in more recent generations less influenced by post-war biases, the decision to adopt the 7x57maus is largely foolish: a buyer must be significantly otherwise motivated to purchase a mid-length cartridge with relatively low rifle, ammo, and brass availability, which requires handloading or boutique/custom ammo to meet the performance of an American designed version which is highly available. So the question really isn’t “why don’t more people buy 7x57’s?” it’s really a question of, “why would they buy a 7x57 over a 7-08?”

Without a sufficiently popular and satisfactory answer to that question, the 7x57 will never do anything except fade more and more. It’ll never disappear, not in the proximal future, but it certainly has no reason to expect a swell any time soon.

Interesting- I am (for reasons personal, business and family) based in a few places around the world. Sadly, US isnt one of the them (albeit I studied in the US for a very long time), and outside the US -08 over x57 is not an advisable option. You dont see many -08s outside the US rifle and ammo wise, but you do see quite a bit of 270s in that range of cartridges. Thats why I included 270 in the original post.

The more I think about the x57 factory loads, the more I am getting interested in either a 7mag or 300 winMag as a supplement to my x57 for anything it cant handle.

Somehow as much as I have thought about buying a 270 on different occasions- it always gets looked over; and I am afraid if 7mag or 300WinMag is bought - for me 270 debate is dead and buried unless I have an epiphany of some sort.

 

[hossfly]

I'm a little like you. I've grown to enjoy history and such. And I am a handloader. In fact, I can't really imagine shooting and not loading, so I would be happy to have a 7 Mauser in a modern rifle. Just for the novelty. Honestly there's not too many guns I wouldn't take if they were offered for free.

The typical hunter doesn't really get in to guns that much though. Most of them don't even handload. And if you're a manufacturer you're not going see much market value in our interest.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Interesting- I am (for reasons personal, business and family) based in a few places around the world. Sadly, US isnt one of the them (albeit I studied in the US for a very long time), and outside the US -08 over x57 is not an advisable option. You dont see many -08s outside the US rifle and ammo wise, but you do see quite a bit of 270s in that range of cartridges. Thats why I included 270 in the original post.

The more I think about the x57 factory loads, the more I am getting interested in either a 7mag or 300 winMag as a supplement to my x57 for anything it cant handle.

Somehow as much as I have thought about buying a 270 on different occasions- it always gets looked over; and I am afraid if 7mag or 300WinMag is bought - for me 270 debate is dead and buried unless I have an epiphany of some sort.

I'd advise considering the 7X64mm Brenneke with traditional barrel rifling twist rate of 1:8.67 inches. Factory ammo isn't as widely available especially in the USA as the 7mm Remington Magnum but it also doesn't come with the level of recoil of factory ammo for 7mm Remington Magnum. Norma's 7X64mm load with their 170 grain Oryx bullet is well into .280 AI velocities, Geco's load with their 170 grain Plus bullet is right on the heels of that Norma load. If Norma releases a 7mm Bondstrike bullet some time soon, I expect loads for it in 7X64mm Brenneke to dig at least as deeply into .280 AI territory if not more so.