870 Police Magnum

[Sulaco]

I thought I would share a little about my 870 Police Magnum. I have seen a lot of people post asking what the difference between the Police Magnum and the Express line of guns is. Well, here you go.

The Police Magnum has a parkerized finish on all parts where the Express uses a bead-blasted blue finish. The Police Magnum does not have dimples in the magazine tube to "prevent" the owner from installing a magazine extension. The Police Magnum does not have a J-Lock on the safety. The Police Magnum has an all steel trigger guard where the Express uses plastic. The Police Magnum is final fitted by hand and the Express is machine fitted. The Police Magnum also has heavier springs (7 lb. sear disconnect spring versus the
Express's 5 lb. disconnect spring). The Police Magnum has a 22 inch
magazine spring versus a 16 inch magazine spring in the Express.
The Police Magnum comes with a heavier lifter spring. The Police Magnum comes with front and rear sling swivel studs. The Police Magnum has a shorter, horizontally ribbed (not checkered) foregrip.

I do a good bit of shotgunning and I prefer this build to most other guns I have handled and/or shot. I think companies like Wilson/Scattergun and Vang Comp make and can do some great things with shotguns but to me, the Police Magnum does what I want for far less and not much more than a standard Express.

Here is a picture of mine. I am going to install a Meprolight front Tritium bead sight and that's about it.

 

[JNewell]

Minor point -- the trigger guard is aluminum not steel. This used to be the case on the Wingmasters as well, but not the Express and other non-WM lines. Not sure whether that's still the case, though I believe it is.

 

[Spinner]

I've seen a few adverse comments regarding the plastic trigger guards. Is it because they've proven to be problematic or is it more a personal taste/tradition thing ..... people of the opinion that there is no place for plastic on a proper firearm?

If its the latter, that's totally cool with me, whatever floats your boat, but I get the impression that people are replacing the plastic trigger guards faster than whiskey disappears at an Irish wedding and I'm wondering if its strictly necessary.

Spinner

 

[Badger Arms]

Does Remington make plastic trigger guards? Do they make steel ones? As far as I knew, they have always had aluminum trigger guards. Am I wrong on this one?

 

[dfariswheel]

SO FAR, the plastic trigger guards seem to be standing up as well as the aluminum version.

In some respects, the plastic guard MAY be superior.

Plastic doesn't have a finish to wear off like aluminum.
If the plastic guard is bumped it deforms, then usually returns to shape. Aluminum bends and breaks.

As far as internal wear, time will tell, but so far it looks like the plastic may be a winner.

Since Remington still uses aluminum on the Police model, I'd assume they think it's Superior to plastic for some reason.

 

[Kestrel]

The Police model also uses bar-stock extractors, whereas the Express model uses MIM extractors. The Police model also goes through additional QC checks.

An interesting note about those additional QC checks. In the last 2 months, I have ordered FOUR different Police magnums from a shop. Each one of them came with the front bead sight canted to the left. (It was off-center.) I didn't accept delivery on any of them. One of the wood stocked models had a cracked forearm, inside.

As for Wilson/Scattergun, one thing to note - they use Express models, I'm sure because of price. You can build one yourself on a Police model and have a better gun. By the way, Wilson does NOT do any kind of action job or trigger job on their shotguns, so it's not like they do any magic to them. (I'm not anti-Wilson - I have some of their guns.)

Steve

 

[La Pistoletta]

It looks nice.

 

[Sulaco]

That sucks that you got a few bad ones. I would not have accepted them either. No telling what else may have been wrong with them.

I did not know about the bar-stock extractors. I am glad it does though. I am not a big fan of MIM parts in guns.

So, is Remington only using plastic triggerguards on the Express line? I had a guy on another forum telling me that he has three Express's and they all have aluminum triggerguards.

 

[dfariswheel]

I'm pretty sure the earlier Express guns used the aluminum trigger group.

I don't' know when they went to plastic, but they're all plastic now.

The other poster probably has older guns.

The Police costs more for a reason: It's an all-round better quality gun.

 

[Correia]

Interesting, I bought a used PD trade in Police Magnum a few years ago. It was blued and had an aluminum trigger guard.

I just bought a trade in Express. The plastic trigger guard doesn't really bug me, but you can wiggle it a little bit. I don't like that. Dremeled out the dimples. So far it has been better than expected. Action is slicking up with use. I was not aware of the MIM parts, but I haven't heard anybody complaining about breaking 870 parts lately.

 

[Dave McCracken]

I'm a little perplexed. My motley crew of 870s seem to lack the beefed up parts but they stubbornly refuse to bust. I did have a firing pin spring go South. Does the Police 870 have a stronger one? Maybe I need to shoot more.....

 

[Sulaco]

I don't recall reading anywhere in this thread where anyone said that since the Police Magnum was built with better parts, that the Express line was somehow flawed...

 

[Kestrel]

Dave - you just haven't shot those things enough, yet...

 

[Spinner]

I must apologise for throwing a spanner into the works.

The plastic trigger guard issue has been mentioned previously and I was curious enough to enquire as to why people were swapping them out with aluminium parts. I would have thought that Remington, with their enviable reputation for solid reliability and dependability, would be keen to maintain that position in a competitive marketplace. I find it interesting that the good folks at Remington think a plastic trigger guard is just dandy for most (?) models of the 870 but lots of folks don't like/trust/want them and swap them out for aluminium units.

I was simply curious as to whether Remington had made a compromise to the 870 (possibly to allow better pricing) to the detriment of the gun, or whether the swapping of parts was peace of mind/tradition/ingrained ideas about the "proper" materials for trigger guards/resistance to change.

In no way did I wish to imply or suggest that plastic trigger guards were or are inferior or guns with plastic parts are somehow diminished in value or usefulness over those without. I was simply curious about the need to swap out the plastic bits ........ mostly because the object of my secret desires is an 870 marine magnum and I'm picking that has a plastic trigger guard.

Spinner

 

[JNewell]

It's a Jeep thing...

We want steel and walnut. Most of us, anyway, most of the time. If someone started cranking out steel TGs, people (like me? like you?) would start buying 'em. People only fixate on the plastic/aluminum thing because there's no steel option for 870s.

Every Model 70 I've had has gotten a steel floorplate if it didn't already have one and a steel triggerguard. The M70 Compact I got had its plastic grip cap replaced with steel. On the 870, I guess I wouldn't be shocked if plastic were an overall better materials choice, but I prefer the aluminum to plastic.

 

[zahc]

I have an old express with a metal TG. (Good) plastic sound like good material to me.

 

[Dave McCracken]

I'm a bit perplexed about all the hoopla about plastic vs alloy. We ran a survey on plastic parts a while back, and out of 1000 views or so we came up with a couple Mossie safeties busting and a recoil buffer on an auto, IIRC.

If the things keep on working, what care we if it's metal or polywhatever?

FYI, Allen Timney's trigger groups are made of steel, can be had for the 870 in either pull or release triggers, with or without a safety, and sell steadily to trap folks. They start at about $200, and at least one's on my "When I win the Lottery list".

I may be wrong, Sulaco, but I think the plastic TGs started in the early 90s.

Spinner, many of us have experienced some prob with newer Remington products. QC seems to be on a downward spiral. Older 870s have also gotten the same kind of cachet pre 64 Winchesters and old Fender Telecasters and amps have. Since some of the changes Remington has made have been to improve the bottom line,not the product, we tend to suspect any changes.

 

[dfariswheel]

"some of the changes Remington has made have been to improve the bottom line".

Precisely.

As has been discussed, Remington is trying to sell a steel framed, forged and milled shotgun at a competitive price with the cheaper-to-make cast aluminum Mossberg and Winchester.

Since forged steel costs more, something HAS to give, and what gave was a plastic trigger group, the Express magazine assembly, the finish, and hardwood stocks.
It's all about pricing and competition.

Again, the plastic guard is actually superior in some respects, and seems to be holding up just fine.

I recently heard a gentleman in a gun shop loudly holding forth on the "fact" that:
1. Remington changed the magazine assembly as a "PC' move.
2. The lockable safety is virtually a suicidal thing to have.
3. Remington's Express receivers were "cheap cast steel" while the Police and Wingmaster was still milled.
4. The plastic trigger group was "trash" that would fall apart quickly.

Number 4 was said as he shifted the (plastic) Glock on his hip.

 

[Dave McCracken]

d, your gun shop commando was full of fertilizer, IMO. But...

It's hard not to see the mag thing as PC. Lower cost still would be no retainer, which plenty of older 870s do without anyway. My oldest wasn't the only one to have that solid metal mag plug, nor the only one to have it permanently removed.

The lockable safety, had it been designed to be manipulation proof, would not be egregious. Some folks have need for a gadget that keeps little fingers from initiating a tragedy. I don't like the idea that it's mandatory. It should be an option.

With more than a decade behind them,if the plastic TGs were trash, we'd have heard plenty of horror stories. Still waiting on the first.

In fact, I'd like to see Remington make a couple more plastic parts. A mag cap and the large nut that secures the forearm wood could be made from Zytel and save maybe 3 oz, for those of us who would like an upland shotgun of a slightly lighter weight. And, we'd not have to worry about that forearm nut rust welding the assembly past our ability to take it down.

A Zytel stock bolt would do the same thing aft. Total weight saving should be maybe 4-5 oz. This would make a livelier handling shotgun with little downside.

 

[dfariswheel]

HUMMMMMM
Do you think a Zytel stock bolt would stand up to the "average" shooter?

As for no mag retainer at all: remember, the gun is built for that "average" shooter, who would no doubt pull the cap off, get a mouthful of spring, and then scream for his lawyer.

I've heard a rumor that Remington is removing the lockable safety from the rifles, and plans to remove them from the shotgun line.
Heard anything?????

 

[Dave McCracken]

Dunno about the bolt,d. I'm no engineer. But if the Bucklite in my pocket can handle having me sit on it periodically for hours, chances are Zytel deserves at least a look.

You may be right about the Bozo Factor.

Heard the same rumor. Hurry the day....

 

[Kestrel]

fariswheel - It's true. Remington's discontinuing the J-locks on the rifles and shotguns. You can call customer service and they will tell you.

Another interesting note - Sako is discontinuing the "Key Concept" lockout device on their rifles. Actually, they are just going to offer it as an option, starting in Feb./Mar. This is according to Beretta's customer service.

Never thought any of this would happen. It's great news.

Steve

 

[JimJD]

That's a nice shotgun Sulaco!
How much did it cost?

 

[Dave McCracken]

Great news indeed, Steve. I wonder if those safeties will accrue any collector value as curiousa.

 

[Gewehr98]

I'm kinda curious when Remington went to the plastic bits...

My 870 Express Mark 1 conversion came from Wal-Mart with an aluminum triggerguard, and bar-stock extractors. That was in 1994. It also had the dimpled magazine tube - quickly remedied.

I noticed Remington 700 PSS and Varmint rifles have an aluminum floorplate, too. Economical, yet entirely functional.