8X57 (323) reloading

[donki1967]

Good evening,

In order to to reload the specific 178 grain 323 bullet for the K98 German Mauser,
can a good charitable soul give me the reloading tables from Hornady or Sierra in the 323 caliber, for a weight between 170-180 gr?
The data from vihtavuori are meager in this caliber, and too hunting oriented.

Regards

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Here is Hornady and Lyman.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Good evening,

In order to to reload the specific 178 grain 323 bullet for the K98 German Mauser,
can a good charitable soul give me the reloading tables from Hornady or Sierra in the 323 caliber, for a weight between 170-180 gr?
The data from vihtavuori are meager in this caliber, and too hunting oriented.

Regards

From the free Sierra app:


Sorry but there’s no entry for the 178gr.

 

[donki1967]

@GeoDudeFlorida: are this Sierra maximum load for the SPT 175 gr? Thank you too
@tightgroup tiger: Thank you very much for your help!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

View attachment 1055335 View attachment 1055336

@GeoDudeFlorida: are this Sierra maximum load for the SPT 175 gr? Thank you too
@tightgroup tiger: Thank you very much for your help!

No. If you look at the bottom of the screenshot you’ll see I have it showing the “accuracy load” velocity, 2400fps or thereabouts.

 

[donki1967]

Ok, and for the vihtavuori N140 I can start my test between 46,7 and 48 gr I suppose?

 

[Swampman]

Are your bullets magnetic?

There's a good chance that they may be steel core with a plated steel jacket.

They're also 3 grains heavier, plus the bearing surface isn't going to be the same as a 175 SMK.

If I were you, I'd back off to @ 44 grains as a starting load.

 

[Blue68f100]

View attachment 1055335 View attachment 1055336

@GeoDudeFlorida: are this Sierra maximum load for the SPT 175 gr? Thank you too
@tightgroup tiger: Thank you very much for your help!

With the Serria app, there is a slider along the bottom you can move up or down to see what powders give you their velocity. Does not mean it's max load. So you need to move the slider up till the data stops for the powder your using. I have yet to find an stated accurate load that was just that in any of my guns. They were good but not the most accurate. So take that there test data for their test gun, not yours.

 

[Laphroaig]

Here's another source of N140 data:

https://www.nosler.com/8-57mm-js-mauser

 

[Laphroaig]

@donki1967 those bullets look like military ball ammo bullets. I have bought and shot a fair amount of USGI 30 cal M2 bullets in the past, and still have a couple hundred M118 match bullets left. But I think the supply has dried up over here. Can you still buy stuff like that in France?

 

[donki1967]

Are your bullets magnetic?

There's a good chance that they may be steel core with a plated steel jacket.

They're also 3 grains heavier, plus the bearing surface isn't going to be the same as a 175 SMK.

If I were you, I'd back off to @ 44 grains as a starting load.

Oh Yes! my bullets are "heavily magnetic"...

 

[donki1967]

@donki1967 those bullets look like military ball ammo bullets. I have bought and shot a fair amount of USGI 30 cal M2 bullets in the past, and still have a couple hundred M118 match bullets left. But I think the supply has dried up over here. Can you still buy stuff like that in France?

My deceased uncle has given me when I was a young boy, a big crate of 8X57 german ammo. (323)
France was full of remnants of war until the 1950s.
Currently,
It is difficult to find officially WW1-2 ammunition, and to my knowledge no professional in France sells it.

 

[Blue68f100]

I tore down some 8mm ammo last year from that era. All of it was bad, the powder was breaking down and starting to eat through the brass. So I'm not surprised it has dried up.

 

[donki1967]

Hello
I was able to start my tests with my G98 DWM from 1914 this morning.
After reflection, I decided to start my shots with these elements:
OAL 3.162"
44,9 grains VV N140
WLR primers
Neck sized S&B cases
Original 178 grains (323 bullets)

The result as you can see is not fantastic, but nevertheless promising...the target was at 109 yards (100 m).
The soot on the collar confirms to me that I can increase my load, and no sign of overpressure on the primers.
Sorry, on the target picture, the POI marking is the Point of Aiming....

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Yes, I would say you could start up the ladder, and I hope the accuracy improves. My WWll 8mm will shoot a nice little two inch group at 100 yd with the open sights and regular old factory Remington 180gr round nose bullets.
Your K98 should be much more accurate than than you target shows.
Your under minimum load so increasing the charge should help with that.
Those bullets may never be more accurate than what are printing now though, it depends on whether the steel core is actually in the center of the bullet and it is spinning on a true axis or wobbling out of balance in flight.

 

[donki1967]

Any idea of the speed achieved with my reload?

BTW, the test rifle is a Gewehr 1898, not a K98.
The goal of my trials is to be able to evaluate the performance of this WWI veteran; and this in my hands as an average shooter.
I will do the same with my Lebel by using vintage bullets, and that later.
Thank you for reading.

 

[Archie]

Nice old rifle. I collect WWI rifles and do not yet have a (roller coaster sight) Gewehr 98 rifle. I have a Turkish modified Gewehr 1888, but still lack a '98.
The literature shows the Imperial German Government claimed a muzzle velocity of some 2880 fps with the 1905 (154 grain bullet) loading. The long barrel certainly helps. That velocity I believe to be a maximum level load.

Accuracy is a bit more problematic. The barleycorn sights worked well for shooting enemies of the Imperality, but seem to not define a clear sight picture for me. They never have and I have considerably older eyes now than then. The sights were designed for shooting not at a point target, but for an area the size and shape of a human torso. Not to mention the sights are not 'finely' adjustable.

That said, without a doubt one should be able to come up with a load that would group better than the one shown. I'm not sure what bullet was used, where it was made (back then) and the powder used is likely not available. Nor have I ever seen what claims to be an authentic target group to which to compare. However, depending on the state of the bore, it should do better. Remember also, all armies use 'issued ammunition'; not individually crafted and tested ammo as reloaders are prone to do.

Do go on. Increase the muzzle velocity until groups seem better or maxes out.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

No, someone with Quick load could probably get you close.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Any idea of the speed achieved with my reload?

BTW, the test rifle is a Gewehr 1898, not a K98.
The goal of my trials is to be able to evaluate the performance of this WWI veteran; and this in my hands as an average shooter.
I will do the same with my Lebel by using vintage bullets, and that later.
Thank you for reading.
View attachment 1060066

I like the rifle. If you strike out. Try some flat based bullets. 150s make a great target bullet. I use imr4064. But any recommended for 308 powder works well.
Shy away from factory S&B 196 fmj. They are full power loads that kick like a mule. Accuracy is good though.

 

[donki1967]

I hardly use factory ammunition anymore, I have more fun shooting what I create.
The 8X57 rounds with 150 grain bullets are ready....

 

[tightgroup tiger]

My Turkish Mauser just loves Hornady 150gr interlocks with IMR 4895. It was a deer killing machine when I was still hunting.

 

[Ken T]

I recently pulled down some German P26 1940 dated 8MM with dead primers.The ammo is steel case and looks like it was loaded yesterday.The powder was still good and there was no rust in the interior of the cases.All has fired fine.

 

[DM~]

Here's what my Krieghoff 8x57 does at 200 yards, with 200NP's and H-205,



DM