A twist on the caliber war, although what I'm asking for I think will be easier to answer, I just don't have the data. Between the 9mm, .40, and .45, which one maintains its performance best in shorter barrels? i.e. instead of looking at test data from 4" or 5" duty barrels, comparing the 3" compacts to their larger brothers.
9, 40, 45 - which maintains performance best in a short barrel?
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joecil
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Now this is strictly a personal opinion based on guns I've actually owned. Now I will also say the 40 S&W is not one since I think it was a round designed to replace the 9mm and a 45 ACP would handle that rather than a tamed 10mm. My opinion is also based mostly for self defense purposes which it the angle I'm coming from here. Less recoil means faster on target between shots with more rounds able to put in that area quicker as a result. I've seen the three guns shot by the same shooter and each timed. It always was 9mm fastest with 45 ACP slowest while 40 was middle road in these tests.
Now the 9mm holds more rounds as well as less recoil than the 45 ACP with both rounds having about the same stopping power in soft tissue with modern JHP ammo. Difference is really little in actual stopping power to me as more shots can be fired quicker on target with a 9mm than a 45 ACP however due to tissue damage a bit more for the harder hitting 45 ACP.
The 40 S&W is about between them is all but still talking about less than an inch penetration with any of them, with slightly larger impact cavities.
Now as for short barrels with what I said the 9mm would still be the fastest due to lower recoil, however small guns limited ammo available usually. Now that isn't saying one is better than the other either. I have a 3.5" barrel guns in both 9mm and 45ACP. Difference is the 9mm is a light weight plastic gun while the 45 ACP is a compact 45 which is heavier. Now another fact my 1911 Compact is more accurate than my compact 9mm but 9 mm carries 13 rounds while 45 carries 8 max. Again nothing but personal opinion on this as I have no real scientific bases for it other than reports and results of speed tests I've seen.
Now the 9mm holds more rounds as well as less recoil than the 45 ACP with both rounds having about the same stopping power in soft tissue with modern JHP ammo. Difference is really little in actual stopping power to me as more shots can be fired quicker on target with a 9mm than a 45 ACP however due to tissue damage a bit more for the harder hitting 45 ACP.
The 40 S&W is about between them is all but still talking about less than an inch penetration with any of them, with slightly larger impact cavities.
Now as for short barrels with what I said the 9mm would still be the fastest due to lower recoil, however small guns limited ammo available usually. Now that isn't saying one is better than the other either. I have a 3.5" barrel guns in both 9mm and 45ACP. Difference is the 9mm is a light weight plastic gun while the 45 ACP is a compact 45 which is heavier. Now another fact my 1911 Compact is more accurate than my compact 9mm but 9 mm carries 13 rounds while 45 carries 8 max. Again nothing but personal opinion on this as I have no real scientific bases for it other than reports and results of speed tests I've seen.
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My question was more related to how the shorter barrel will affect the velocity and energy of the round, and how that might affect terminal ballistics. I'm not too terribly familiar with internal ballistics and only vaguely familiar with external ballistics.
I understand the recoil aspect of it and the caliber size vs. capacity aspect. I'm more looking to the difference in ballistics between the two.
I understand the recoil aspect of it and the caliber size vs. capacity aspect. I'm more looking to the difference in ballistics between the two.
I realize they would have reduced velocity. Which one of the three options, with common defense loadings (to get specific, let's say Speer Gold Dot or Winchester PDX1) would lose the most velocity by by having a barrel that's 1.5" shorter?
joecil
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As for velocity I guess that would come down to what the ammo was in question. For example in guns under 5" long barrels I use Speer Gold Dot +P short barrel for those 5" or longer the normal Speer Gold dots. As for range ammo I've never tested it so can't be much help as I tend to shot factory ammo pretty much by one maker RWS because recoil matches my feeling the closest to the SD ammo that I do buy. I only by SD ammo in factory loads but I'm working of matching the RWS stuff as close as possible and will eventually.
jimbo555
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The 45 won't shrink.
RickMD
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I believe all three rounds are loaded for use in 5" barrels and would expect to see a similar velocity decrease in all three when used in shorter barrels. I experimented with .38 snubbies a few years ago and found that I could optimize velocities buy going to faster burning powder. Of course, if you don't reload it's a moot point. Any short barreled handgun is going to leave more powder unburnt when compared to a longer tube.
LightningMan
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Here you go-> http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
Gives a break down of calibers and by barrel lenght, from 16" down to 2". You can determine your own conclusions. LM
Gives a break down of calibers and by barrel lenght, from 16" down to 2". You can determine your own conclusions. LM
Interesting. Going from 4" to 3" barrel on 9mm has the biggest effect on the "short barrel" round.
Seems 9mm on most of those loses 3-8% energy, .45 ACP loses 8-10% energy, and the .40 loses 4-11%, but in general the 9 handles the shorter barrel better (followed by .40 and then .45).
Also, lighter bullets lost less energy on transition to lower barrel.
Seems 9mm on most of those loses 3-8% energy, .45 ACP loses 8-10% energy, and the .40 loses 4-11%, but in general the 9 handles the shorter barrel better (followed by .40 and then .45).
Also, lighter bullets lost less energy on transition to lower barrel.
wally
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Remember, all things being equal, bullet penetration is proportional to bullet sectional density times velocity.
SD of 9mm 147gr is 0.167, 9mm 124 gr is 0.141, .40S&W 180 gr is 0.161 and .4ACP 230 gr is 0.162. Expansion greatly reduces sectional density.
In sub 4" barrels I prefer .40S&W 180 gr. As the three most important things to handgun effectiveness is bullet Placement, Placement,and Penetration.
SD of 9mm 147gr is 0.167, 9mm 124 gr is 0.141, .40S&W 180 gr is 0.161 and .4ACP 230 gr is 0.162. Expansion greatly reduces sectional density.
In sub 4" barrels I prefer .40S&W 180 gr. As the three most important things to handgun effectiveness is bullet Placement, Placement,and Penetration.
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