9 mm accuracy what to expect?

[littlebob3]

I have just started reloading and was wondering,
If I were to load 110 rounds with Unique power with Berry’s 9mm 115gn bullet.
Shoot them from a bench rest at 35 feet in an indoor range.
What would you expect the accuracies to be from one load to another?
Would the lower loads improve my accuracy?
Just looking for input as I would like to increases my accuracy?

QTY Load
10 4.5
10 4.6
10 4.7
10 4.8
10 4.9
10 5.0
10 5.1
10 5.2
10 5.3
10 5.4
10 5.5

I am using a Sig 226 TOC

Thanks

LittleBob3

 

[Walkalong]

Your gun will tell you which load/s it likes. You just have to shoot them, see what you get, tweak the best, and see if you can improve it.

One group means nothing.

Well, almost nothing.

 

[LiveLife]

I haven't done as much accuracy testing with Unique in 9mm, but for Bullseye/Titegroup/W231/HP-38, I got the following best average shot groups at 15 yards off hand using 115 gr Winchester FMJ loaded to 1.135" OAL shot from Glock 17 with high range load data. The shot group averages were measured center-to-center using 3 consecutive targets on multiple range trips to eliminate "fluke" shot groups:

Bullseye/Titegroup/W231/HP-38: Sub 1.5" - 5 round shot groups

In general, I reference 1"-2"-3" average shot groups at 7-10-15 yards off hand for most semi-auto pistols. As noted, some pistol/reload combinations are more accurate.

 

[RandyP]

What 'accuracy' are you presently achieving from factory ammo?

IMHO increase the ladder .2 or .3 gr and then compare. At indoow range distances most anything should group pretty well I'm thinking.

I live in Chicago myself, what range lets you benchrest?

 

[LiveLife]

BTW, I started out shooting 1911/Sig 226 and I believe the 226 was more accurate than Gen2 Glock 17 I compared it with. My sub 1.5" shot groups mentioned above were shot with Gen3 G17.

 

[918v]

You should be able to get 1" accuracy at that range. But you'll dialog better with 147s.

 

[littlebob3]

I guess I was looking for something a little more different in the grouping, something that would tell me that I need to use 4.5 grains instead of say 5.4 grains.
For some reason I was think that the amount of power I used would make a big different in the grouping.
But as you can see it really does not matter if you use 4.5 or 5.4 grains of Unique.
Now I can see it does not matter if it’s -+ 1/10 of a grain.
A few of the ones in the gray are from when I first started getting used to the bench.
I bet if it was a rifle at a few hundred yards it would make a big different.

Midwest Gun 8565 Plainfield Rd. Lyons IL.

 

[Blue68f100]

That gun should do better than what your showing. I shoot a Sig 229 in 9mm. Sig show a accuracy of 2" at 25yrds. Your vertical spread could be velocity varation. Unique does not meeter with any accuracy in some powder dispensers. This may be some of the problem. But if the loads are accurate you should get good results. Also with plated bullets you need to becareful not to cut through the plating when doing the TC.

If you have access to a Ransom rest for bench shooting will help you too.

If you you use a separate target for each load, you can overlay the targets and see whats going on.

 

[littlebob3]

Thank you... i was thinking it shuld have be better.
I did use a separate targe for each load and overlayed then in PhotoShop.

It may have been the benchrest i was using... first time using it... not sure how to use it. I was told it only cost $20.00 and you rested your hand on it... was not the $400 Ransom rest for sure...

Littlebob3

 

[Blue68f100]

You don't need the High end rest for your testing. There are other out there that are not near as expensive. Midway puts them on sale for <$80 if I recall. For your needs you do not need one to clamp the gun and remote trigger. You just need to support for the bottom front of the frame and the use of sand bags to support your hands. The trick is finding a comfortable position that allows you to align the sights good fully supported.

 

[JDGray]

Just looking for input as I would like to increases my accuracy?

Lots of practice, dryfiring, not drinking coffee, lots of things!

 

[918v]

I guess I was looking for something a little more different in the grouping, something that would tell me that I need to use 4.5 grains instead of say 5.4 grains.

What I meant to say is you should get it dialed in to 1" groups, not that every powder charge weight will deliver 1" accuracy.

Sig barrels have a 1-10" twist rate which is not conducive to great accuracy with light weight bullets. However, 1-10" is pretty good for 147gr bullets. I had a P226 that shot .5" at 50 feet with 147gr handloads. I sold it to finance my P210 and have had a hard time replicating that kind of accuracy.

The point is you will be better off with 147s. Also, understand that with a change in powder charge weight comes a change in the point of impact. As you increase the powder, your groups will wonder. Primers will move POI as well as altering your group size. 9mms are finicky that way.

 

[1SOW]

I'm not familiar with your powder.
Several other powders I've used had a common trait. The lower end of the load range is not going to give optimum accuracy "for the pistol".
The shooter is another issue. I use/prefer 124gr/125gr jacketed/plated bullets.

Powders I've used need a minimum pressure to burn consistently. You'll reach a load that groups well and can be tweeked to optimum for that Powder-Bullet-OAL-Primer -pistol combo. This optimum PISTOL load has been above the mid-range load for powders I've used. The highest end of the data didn't give best groups for me. Increasing or decreasing powder is what's being discussed, but changing OAL is another way to change pressure and affect accuracy. Confused yet? As 918v said, there are A LOT OF VARIABLES that affect group size
On the other hand, I may SHOOT a better group offhand with a slightly lighter load due to less flip and faster sight recovery. YMMV

Shoot 5-shot groups on separate targets slowly and carefully..sights and trigger..sights and trigger---don't get "tired". Repeat. Record your results. With your full 1 gr load range, .2grains jump between loads makes better sense. Tweek the best load +/- .1gr.

 

[mizer67]

2" at 25 yards for a 10-round group should be achievable with your Sig from a rest. Almost any load will group into 1" at 30 feet from a rest.

For optimal accuracy, In my expereince, medium burn rate powders to offer the best chances in 9mm for an accurate load.

Power Pistol (loud, lots of flash), N330, WSF, Silouhette and N340 have proven the most accurate for me across a number of bullet weights and guns.

There is no hard and fast rule for which bullet weight will group better. My Glocks have 1 in 10 twists, and still won't shoot 147 gr Zero JHPs well. It will shoot Precision Delta 124 JHPs or Hornady 115 gr XTP JHPs into 2.5" or 2.0" center to center at 25 yards from a rest. I rarely shoot at 50 yards, but the more premium bullets will hold tighter groups at that distance, whereas the cheaper versions generally open up a bit more.

A 115 grain projectile has proven more accurate in my guns running ~1,150 fps, whereas 124 grain projectiles seem more accurate at 1,080 fps or below, in general, for target ammo. +P loadings are very accurate some guns, but that's for another time.

 

[littlebob3]

Over 90% were within 3" and about 70% were within 1".

I did shoot 10 rounds off hand and they were all within 2.5" so i am sure part of it was me learning to use the benchrest.

I will try the 147gr load and play with the OAL.

Many thank for all the input... I am sure it will help!

LittleBob3

 

[LiveLife]

Good to hear. These were shot from the same distance of 33 feet?

 

[littlebob3]

All were at 33 Feet. I shot 5 rounds into a new target each time, Then I scanned then into PhotoShop to overlayed then to have only one target with all the holes.

Again thanks to all

LittleBob3

 

[mizer67]

I see you're using Berry's.

My experience has been that plated bullets typically will not hold up well with regards to accuracy once you start pushing the distance out to 25 yards or greater.

YMMV, but in 9mm, there are several jacketed bullet suppliers that have similar pricing at the case level to Berry's.

 

[918v]

Like Zero or Precision Delta.

 

[LiveLife]

mizer67, you might want to try out Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP bullets. The hollow base thick plated bullets will hold up to 1450 fps and shooting more accurate than my 115 gr Winchester FMJ reference loads using Bullseye/Titegroup/W231/HP-38 - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7266869#post7266869

If you are looking for 9mm accuracy, the hollow base design increases the bearing surface length and contribute to better seal with the barrel for more consistent chamber pressures. Both Powder Valley and TJ Coneveras ($88/1K includes free shipping) carry them at lower price than Berry's MFG.

 

[mizer67]

Thanks BDS, I may give those a try.

I've had poor results using bearing surface as a guide in the past, though (115 Win FMJ-HB / Zero 147 JHPs / Hornady 147 XTP JHPs, etc.). Some swear by those bullets, but my 9mms don't seem to agree, at least with the powders I've tried.

Some of my most accurate 9mm loads to date use the short Hornday 115 XTP JHP I've been experimenting with. Not the best USPSA loads, nor the cheapest, but very accurate, even in fast twist barrels.

125 grain HAPs also perform well for me using very similar data to the 115 XTP JHP, as do the $.84 / 1K Precision Delta 124 JHPs (2K min) and Montana Gold 124 JHP ($.85 / 1K at case pricing) for practice.

 

[1SOW]

The Berry's 124gr HBRN-TP do shoot very well in my 1:9.7 twist, CZ 4.72" bbl, 130-ish PF using Vihtavuori n320.

I have used MG 124CMJ, MG124JHP(conical nose) and Zero 125JHP (traditional ogive).
The Zero 125JHP, Berry's 124HBRN and the MG 124CMJ are more accurate 'for me' in my pistol at USPSA minor PF speeds than the MG JHP, PD124 FMJ or Zero 124 FMJ.
YMMV

 

[918v]

I've had poor results using bearing surface as a guide in the past, though (115 Win FMJ-HB / Zero 147 JHPs / Hornady 147 XTP JHPs, etc.). Some swear by those bullets, but my 9mms don't seem to agree, at least with the powders I've tried.

What did you try? It's not the bearing surface. That has nothing to do with it. 1-32" twist barrels shoot 115gr bullets into 1" at 50 yards.

1-10" 9mms like heavier bullets. The trick is fine tuning with OAL, not with powder charge alone.

 

[Walkalong]

The longer length of the Berrys 124 Gr HBRN TP vs standard 124/5 Gr bullets helps it in faster twist barrels.

My EMP dislikes 115 Gr bullets. It shoots 124/5's much better. I have not tried 147's in it.

The 9MM is certainly pickier than the .45 ACP. Anyone can throw together an accurate load in .45 ACP, with very little effort.

+1 for the Berrys 124 Gr HBRN TP. It certainly shoots well for me in my guns, including .38 Super. It is well worth trying.

The Zero 125 Gr JHP's I have sure shoot well too.

 

[mizer67]

I tried N320 and WSF at OALs from 1.10" to 1.140". My 1 in 10 twist barreled Glocks wouldn't put 10 rounds of Zero 147 JHPs or Hornady XTP JHPs into less than 3.6" at 25 yards with those combos, with N320 being the least accurate for me.

With Win 115 FJM-HB, which should have proven very accurate, I used 4.8 and 5.0 grains of N330 and OALs of 1.12 to 1.13" with poor results. They may have flown better at higher velocities.

Although 1 in 10 twists should shoot 147s better, as shorter bullets should be over-stabilized with that twist rate and lose accuracy, at least at minor velocities, this is not the case in my experience with the bullets, powders and OALs I've tried.