9mm +P 115gr JHP enough for home defence?

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The key word being "almost".
Yeah, you're right. Though I will say, certain 9mm loads are the functional equivalent. The 124gr +p Speer Gold dot and Federal's bple come to mind. There is a sweet spot that the better 9mm loads hit that does just as well as any 40/357/45 load does, although it doesn't perform as well on paper or in gelatin. Its the spot where bad guy's bone's shatter and blood vessels burst and the subject dies just like he was hit by a 357/40/45 round.
The weaker 9mm loads, by contrast, perform like a .380 round; they glance off or chip bone, and the flesh wounds are totally unimpressive.
 
so biker what should i shoot at to proove that hollow points do not expand even though that is what they are designed to do?
 
sure hope so, I've got 147 gr 9mm in my HD gun right now. If i cant stop them with 11 of those, I probably need a swat team, not a handgun.
 
The only decent ammo the gun store had was 9mm +P 115gr Bonded JHP. Is this enough for home defence?
Is it enough to stop an intruder?

Maybe.

To be honest, there are way too many varibles to consider.
And all hanguns are a compromise in one way or another, regardless of caliber.

Is the 9mm the best choice for a self-defense handgun caliber?

No.
 
9mm has been doing a good job for more than 100 years so yes, its enough.
I've been happy that since moving into my new place, I finally have enough room to maneuver with my 12ga. In my old place, my handguns were my main home defense guns and I didn't feel at all under-gunned with my CZ75B in 9mm.

If the first one doesn't do it, just squeeze the trigger again.
 
Most of the world uses the 9 from what I understand.

My wife is 4'9" and perhaps 102 pounds. I don't care if a .45 puts a larger hole in an attacker, she can never shoot it. The Mrs can however keep our 9 on the midsection of a torso. Believe me, I feel quite confident in the Corbon DXPs we load 'em with.

I too have worked around a fair number of gunshot wounds. In my opinion the 3 most important factors are ability to shoot it well, follow up shots and Good wound cavitation. The 9mm is just fine for PD.
 
I now live with neighbors close enough that I have to be concerned about missed shots. I do pretty well shooting at paper, but wake me from a sound sleep & have targets that may be shooting back who knows. I read somewhere that the hit ratio is way less than 50% for police officers under fire. I have a .45 on the night stand, to put in my robe pocket, but the 870 in the corner is what I'm going down the hall with.
 
9mm will do fine against just about anything that goes bump in the night.

You do not need a .45 or whatever. Extra power is nice and buys you a wider margin of error. But if 9mm is what you have and what you are comfortable with it is more then enough.
 
The 115 gr. is good enough, as others have pointed out, if your shot placement is good. You may find that the P7, like many other European 9mm pistols, prefers the 124 gr. weight. That subtle difference may result in better shot placement, and therefore may make a big difference.
 
Won't kill a zombie! Think about it.

Of course, it will work fine if you know how to shoot and practice. Or get a 12 gauge that you don't even have to aim or even have to shoot - just rack it.

Bah - cranky today.
 
If I were an intruder in your home, and you defended yourself with 115gr 9mm+P JHPs, it would definitely ruin my day.

Personally, I like heavy subsonic 147gr 9mm JHP for my carry pistol. It is true that 147gr 9mm rounds were not originally meant for pistols (apparently they were meant for submachine guns) and that the early 147gr JHP bullets often failed to expand due to their low speed. Modern bullet design has made the good 147gr hollowpoints reliable expanders. Tests in bare and denim-covered gelatin show good penetration and consistent expansion for reputable JHPs like Remington Golden Sabers, Corbon DPX, Federal Hydrashoks, Speer Gold Dots, and others. Even the low-cost Winchester USA (White Box) 147gr JHP rounds performed well in the tests I've seen.

115gr +P JHPs and 147gr subsonic JHPs are on opposite ends of the 9mm spectrum. The argument between "fast and light" and "slow and heavy" will go on for a very long time. Your "fast and light" bullets have the advantage of being fast enough that they'll probably have no trouble expanding if they hit your target, but don't let people tell you that lighter is better for home defense because of the decreased risk of overpenetration.

Don't get me wrong. A 115gr bullet may stop with less resistance than a 147gr bullet, but don't let that fact make you get careless. I've actually tried shooting various .380 and 9mm loads into a simulated interior wall. I built a small section of wall using 2 layers of 1/2 inch sheetrock separated by 2x4 studs. My 95gr .380ACP FMJ, 102gr .380ACP Golden Sabers, 115gr 9mm FMJ, 124gr 9mm JHP, 124gr 9mm+P JHP, 147gr 9mm FMJ, and 147gr 9mm JHP all penetrated both sides of the wall and buried themselves in a mound of dirt located 6 feet behind the simulated wall.

This wasn't a scientific test. I don't know how much energy each bullet carried after passing through the wall. All I know is that they all went straight through both sides of the wall and disappeared into a mound of dirt.

I wouldn't want that mound of dirt to be somebody I loved. We talk about shot placement being the most important factor with in ANY home defense situation, and I couldn't agree with that statement more, but it's a double sided coin. You don't just have to become proficient enough to put your shots on target. You also have to be responsible enough to think about your backstop. That's one more reason to become proficient with your carry weapon. If you hit your intended target with reputable defensive ammunition, it's very likely that the bullet will expand and slow significantly inside the attacker or intruder's body. If the bullet does manage to leave your target's body, it will be deformed, and it will be carrying significantly less energy to hurt people and things beyond your target.
 
Too bad General Nguyan Ngoc Loan died some years ago. Now THERE was a man who knew about shot placement!
 
All these people that say that the 9mm isn't an adequate load, I can never get them to volunteer to let me shoot them with it to see if they are correct...
 
I ask myself this:

If I were in a firefight, would I want my enemy to have a .40S&W, a .45APC, a .357Sig, or a 9mm?


My answer:
Either a .45APC or a 9mm.

Why?

If he had a .45 he might run out of bullets faster.

And if he had a 9mm, and he actually shot me, I would probably have a greater chance of survival than if he had used one of the other calibers.
 
Based on what I've read, there are two factors in determining whether a bullet is effective at stopping a hostile threat:

1. It destroys the central nervous system
2. It causes enough blood loss that there is no longer effective pressure to operate the brain

Assuming this is correct, the question with larger handgun calibers then becomes how do they do these better than a smaller caliber? Since they have lower velocities, they generally don't do damage with the temporary cavity exceeding elasticity of tissue like some rifle rounds. It seems to me that the larger caliber will compensate for a 0.10" error in missing the central nervous system.

I don't know enough about the hyrdaulics of the human circulation system to even guess rough numbers; but I would guess that the difference in blood loss between a .354 (9mm) hole in the same location as a .450 hole is also a fairly marginal difference.

I can see the sound logic in "bigger hole is better"; but what I question is "How much better?" My guess is that it is such a marginal difference that it will be a really bad day before it makes the difference in whether you win or lose.
 
Phil...

Following your logic, do you think that a .22RF is enough for a SD caliber?

If not, would you volunteer to stand in front of me and be shot with one.?

Biker
 
The OP said he had a new P7M8, so he is not shopping for a cailber. A man with a P7 and any weight +P JHP is sufficiently armed for home defense.

I don't use my P7's for that purpose, but they would certainly be up to the task. My "bump-in-the-night" home defense gun is a Glock 21 with an Insight M6X on the rail. If you are going to use the P7 in this role, find a good flashlight to store with it and learn to coordinate the handling of the light and the gun at the same time. Your nine will have lots of penetration so you'll need to consider the implications of shots in different directions based on the home construction and any other occupants in the home. You don't want to shoot into a child's bedroom through the drywall or into the adjacent dwelling of a duplex or apartment. In my remote setting with just me and the wife, those things are not critical.
 
My AR shoots little bullets - it must be bad.
 
My one of my biggest considerations in using a 9mm is the fact that I have houses surrounding me on all 4 sides. Overpenetration is a huge factor. The P7 is going to be my home defense gun for now but probably in a couple months I'm going to get a glock. I'm torn between a 17 and a 37. Anybody know anything about how the 45 GAP is for overpenetration? Stopping power?
 
Yes. It will perform fine. The 9mm out performs the .38 special most of the time and the .357 from a snubnose and few people talk smack about those two rounds for HD.
 
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