9mm Reloading Questions

[LiveLife]

Here's what Ramshot's latest load data lists - http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_1-23-14.pdf

124 gr (P) BERRY RN COL 1.160" Start 3.9 gr (888 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (998 fps) 32,950 PSI

147 gr (L) LC FP COL 1.145" Start 3.0 gr (834 fps) - Max 3.5 gr (941 fps) 34,740 PSI

(P) is for Berry's plated and (L) is for Laser Cast lead bullets.

While Ramshot load data doesn't list lead bullet for 124 gr, I would reference the closest load data for the bullet nose shape (RN) and conduct my work up from start charge using the working OAL/COL that you determined for your pistol/barrel. If you are using shorter than 1.160" like 1.120"-1.135", use 3.6-3.8 gr as your start charge and work up towards 4.2 gr.

I hope this helps.

 

[jct55]

drop test

please bear with me, I know I'm making this harder than it has to be, but I just can't see right now.

Barrel out of gun, an empty (no bullet) shell only goes so far into the chamber. nothing is flush anywhere. It seats off the front (mouth) of the shell, I can see that. Now, no matter which bullet, no matter how long/short I insert into the case it still only locates off the end of the shell and it is still not flush. (the rear of the shell, stands up out of the "hood" the length of the groove & base of the shell without a bullet on the end, or with a bullet on the end, no change). The bullet never touches the lands/grooves....?????

 

[LiveLife]

You make the dummy rounds (no powder/no primer) and conduct the barrel drop test by:

- Full-length resize test cases and drop them in the chamber. They should all drop in freely with a "plonk". If they don't, they did not get fully resized and you may need to adjust your resizing die.

- Using resized case that passed the chamber, flare the case mouth and seat a RN bullet to SAAMI max OAL (1.169" for 9mm) using .376"-.378" taper crimp.

- Using the barrel, incrementally decrease the OAL until the round freely drop in the chamber with a "plonk" and spin without hitting the start of rifling. This is your max OAL.

- Once you determine the max OAL, next identify the working OAL by function checking with your pistol/magazine. Reassemble the pistol and lock the slide back. Load the dummy round in the magazine and release the slide without riding it. Incrementally decrease the OAL until you can reliably feed/chamber from the magazine. This is your working OAL.

 

[Potatohead]

Just an fyi, I had to send my sr9 back for non ejection/double feed type malfunctions when I first got mine. They replaced, or whatever they do, the extractor and it's ran fine ever sense.

 

[LiveLife]

Almost every factory 115gr RN I've seen is about 1.10" Ive loaded my 9mm 115's that way for 10 years.

Not true. IME, I have seen longer, not shorter. While many factory and some aftermarket barrels will support OAL out to 1.160" - 1.169", unless you use higher powder charges, your chamber pressures may not be high enough for efficient powder burn and good initial pressure build up.

I often use mid-to-high range load data with 124/125 gr bullets and high-to-near max load data with 115 gr bullets and prefer to use shorter 1.135" OAL with typical RN profile bullets (1.125" with stepped lead RN) for proper feeding/chambering and deep enough bullet seating depth for initial chamber pressure build up.

If you are using lighter target loads with some faster burning powders than Unique/Universal, shorter 1.125"-1.135" loads will actually produce more accurate loads than using longer OAL - it's all about consistent chamber pressures. With some slower powders than Unique/Universal, you will benefit from using longer OAL to reduce high pressure gas leakage, but usually I need to use high-to-near max load data with slower powders to obtain optimal accuracy.

 

[Potatohead]

I always see several knowledgeable folk comment on threads like this something to the effect "To determine proper OAL you need to perform the plunk test" Well. I say (and will be the first to admit I am wrong MANY times) this is not the case when discussing a load recipe, but IS the case when discussing what length is best for your gun....i.e., if you have a strong load that calls for 1.160, and your gun plunks lets say for this example 1.100. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE PROPER OAL FOR THIS ROUND IS 1.100! You will have a serious over pressure situation.

I know this is not news to experienced reloaders, but this confused the berjeebers out of me when I first started, and this is the only reason I am posting this. There is a proper OAL for your gun's best function, but that does not mean you can safely shorten oal, at least not on stronger loads, a weak one maybe. RC covered this well just above.

Am I off base here? Please school if so. I see lots of threads where someone wants to modify OAL for a load and the first thing thrown at them is "plunk test for proper OAL" and I see this as confusing and possibly dangerous.

Please advise if I am off base here, you could fill a battleship with what I dont know yet about reloading!

Russellc

Good post Russell. That used to confuse me too.

 

[Potatohead]

I am Soooo lost & frustrated. Brand new to reloading thanks to a cheap used price on a Lee Loadmaster at 200.00. Now I'm nose deep at over 700.00 worth of fixups & stuff later, I still have to load my first 9mm round (the ONLY one I will ever do). I hate to gripe, but i have read, read & reread for almost 2 weeks now EVERYTHING I can find on the i-net & the lyman 49th, Lee's modern reloading etc. Nowhere can I get a definate/CLOSE answer either.

I am using all "standard" brand new stuff. (cept the press, but all plastic parts replaced w/new & so far seems fine).

I started by casting my own w/lee 6 cavity 125gn molds w/wheel weight lead (bought off ebay).

Will be shooting a brand new FS92 that so far has only had 35 commercial federal bullets thru it. Barrel slugs at .355 so sizing at .356 & thinned out alox tumble lube. After some casting practice, seems good, no wrinkles, good flat bottoms, BUT here's a rub. Not even close to 125gn. All drops are EITHER 128.1gn OR 129.6gn. Nothing in the middle, or anywhere else. just exactly those two and mostly the heavier wt. (according to my digital scale) weights. Every single good bullet. That worries me a little too.

So, nothing exact in the load tables for that weight. Said I,.. I'd just load for 124/125gn cast rn with Ramshot ZIP (that's all they had) at 3.2gn (minimum load I can find in any table so far) & let things go slow I thought...

Well now OAL. Ramshot's closest table shows lead at 124 or 147 gn. 124gn shows an OAL of 1.050". (lee's book shows 1.065 for 120gn & 1.058 for 147 lead, which isn't much help either) That's really short & the bullet sure does look funny stuffed all that way in the case. Way shorter (by almost .100 thousandths) than the commercial fmj rn federals.
But ok. The lead 147gn shows 1.145" oal in the ramshot table! OMG! now what? 3.2 isn't a LOT of powder but the 124gn (which is really 128.1/129.6gn)with almost 1/8" MORE bullet in the case sure ain't got as much "room" inside the case as the 147gn????)

should I just "guess" oal, keeping it within those lenghts? I can't seem to find my grooves with a plunk test. ALL bullets fit fine in the tube, freely spin and the bullets come out of the shell BEFORE i can find the lands, so I think chamber/land/grooves room has plenty clearance. OAL would just be the matter of internal pressure in my case I guess??

Next problem? I have a box of ZERO FMJ 124gn's I want to load up, and pretty much same trouble, not much exact data, maybe better than trying to find the "lead" answers, but this is getting tough. I'm really wanting to go bang bang bang, but not BOOM!

Am I just overthinking/chickenhearted or can somebody please help me????? I have bought everything "standard" and followed directions well, but now seems I am the ONLY one in the world that has no recipe for this "standard" setup.??? thank you for your help!

Welcome JCT. You will probably get more traffic (help) if you posted your question as a seperate thread.

 

[jct55]

Thank ya'll!

Thanks so much for your help.

This hobby/job truly has massive information overload and that is fine and even desirable, but for the newest of the new, it is humbling.

I actually followed the "basics" and now have loaded & fired my own bullet. Not quite as thrilling as my first airplane solo, but just as satisfying.

Then, since the load was not adequate to function the slide, I raised it up 1/10th at a time. ( was worried that I may get a squib too but NOT!)

It started with 3.2 gn pwdr, then 3.3, 3.4 up to 3.5. There was a very substancial difference between 3.4 & 3.5 in the recoil, noise and full slide function.
I then loaded 5 more rounds and the pistol/magazine functioned fine.

I decided to use an OAL of 1.125". I like good round numbers and that is exactly 1 1/8". Worked well in the mag & cycling fine.

THIS is not a license to fly, this is a license to LEARN!.......

 

[jct55]

My Road

I learned how to swim because I decided I was tired of hitting my head, knees, elbows and the rest of me on the bottom of the pool. I went to the deep end, and jumped off. For about 20 seconds or so, I was horrified, scared, crying, slobbering, fighting, slashing and sucking in gallons of water thu my mouth, my nose and even my ears because I made the biggest mistake of my life and now I had just killed myself....and wasn't dead YET! Then I relaxed a little, got my head out of the water, sucked in a belly full of air and held my breath, for a loooong time. Soon enough, I upsided and began to float. Another quick breath or two and I started to dog paddle, side stroke, back stroke and every other stroke known to man, and even some NOT known. BUT, somehow all the locomotion was starting to get me closer to the side of the pool, I noticed that right away! The rest is history but for a small country fat boy, I had fought the good fight and won. And so it goes on to reloading....

My eventual starting recipe is for my 9mm for Beretta 92fs:

Barrel slugs at .355

Lee 6 cavity Round Nose, 1 lube groove 125gn mold which throws 128.1gn to 129.6gn bullets
thinned alox tumble lube
Sized to .356 and tumble lube again
Loaded with Ramshot ZIP powder at 3.5gn
OAL= 1.125"

I don't have much data on the performance yet as I've only fired 5 rounds of this so far, BUT it is MY starting point.

I fully disclose that this is ONLY for information, and I make no kind of promises but this got me out of the starting gate, which opens the world to me now for "customizing" which will likely NEVER be completed but it IS the HUNT that's the fun part.....

Thank ya'll again!
jct55