9mm Reloading Range Report

[J_McLeod]

For my second time loading ammo, I decided to enjoy the custom part of loading and see how low I could get. I loaded 9mm with CCI 500s and 115 gr FMJ and Win 231 from 4.7 gr in increments down to 3.7 gr. Also loaded some 124gr Rainier HPs with 4.0 and 3.7 gr of 231. It was nice to get to know my pistols a little better. None of them would cycle with 3.7 gr, and with 4.0 they were almost dropping brass at my feet. I like 231, it seems pretty accurate. The most accurate load seemed to be the 115gr w/ 4.25gr 231. Thanks again to everyone here for the advice.

 

[James2]

I like 231 for my 45. I have not loaded for 9mm. Yes, you have to use enough powder to cycle the action. Sounds like you are having fun experimenting.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would suggest being a little more careful with your charge weights. Hodgdon recommends a starting charge of 4.7gr W231 under a 115gr Jacketed bullet. Your charge of only 3.7gr is a fill grain below the Min. That's not good.

Also, your charge of only 3.7gr under the 124gr JHP bullet is also below the Min. It's never good to exceed the Max published charge but just as importantly you should never go below the Min published data either. I don't know what data source you're using but you might want to use the Hodgdo Load Data Site from now on.

When I load a 124/125gr LRN bullet I charge between 4.0gr and 4.4gr W231 depending on which pistol it's for. With a 124gr JHP bullet I usually charge 4.6gr to 4.7gr W231. I'm not trying to ruin your fun. I'm only trying to help...

 

[J_McLeod]

I didn't know there was any danger to loading too low other than the action not cycling. I've been referencing Hodgdon, Winchester and Lyman data. The Lyman load for a 115gr FMJ starts at 3.5gr on 231.

 

[918v]

would suggest being a little more careful with your charge weights. Hodgdon recommends a starting charge of 4.7gr W231 under a 115gr Jacketed bullet. Your charge of only 3.7gr is a fill grain below the Min. That's not good.

Also, your charge of only 3.7gr under the 124gr JHP bullet is also below the Min. It's never good to exceed the Max published charge but just as importantly you should never go below the Min published data either. I don't know what data source you're using but you might want to use the Hodgdo Load Data Site

Why?

I do it all the time. There is nothing unsafe about it.

 

[rfwobbly]

I didn't know there was any danger to loading too low other than the action not cycling.

Some powders are known to actually go higher on the pressure with under-sized loads. I don't believe Win231 is one of these, but as a general rule Mr Angel is correct. It's simply not a good reloading habit. Can you go 0.1gr lower for a tight bullet or some other special circumstance, why sure. It's not chiseled in stone.

 

[LiveLife]

OK, I confess. I guess I am a curious reloader.

When I work up a new powder, I do dip just below the starting load (not much, like .2-.3 gr) and go up from there ... just in case I could find a nice accurate plinking load. Usually powder burns dirty, accuracy is not good and fails to extract/cycle the slide.

Sometimes, you hit pay dirt. My favorite so far is 180 gr TCFP 40S&W with 3.8 gr of W231/HP38. It burns fairly clean, works the slide on G22/G27 and very accurate. Recoil is light and I use the load to start out female shooters on 40S&W or shooters transitioning from 9mm. It takes the snappy recoil fear out and allows them to focus on shooting techniques. I incrementally increase the powder charge until they are comfortable with higher loads.

Going too far below starting load can be dangerous so don't do it or do so at your own risk.

 

[J_McLeod]

I had heard that going to low can cause overpressure with some powders and asked about 231 on another thread and got the same answer. When I first started I got confused by all the different data out there for the same loads. My main sources are Lyman and Hodgdon, but on has a starting load of 3.5 gr 231 and another 4.7 gr for the same primer and bullet combo. Lyman's max load was 4.9gr, only .2 above Hodgdon's starting load. When I previously loaded some at 4.7 it felt a bit snappy so I wanted to see what else worked. They were all close, but it seems the most accurate group I shot was about 4.2 gr, and not as snappy as the 4.7. The brass did come back pretty dirty.

 

[Peter_S]

I might be wrong, but I'm sure I picked up the suggestion on this site to start at 10% below the published "start" load and work up from there. I figured the 10% allowance made room for individual minor differences in OAL, crimping or whatever. It seemed a safe and conservative approach and has worked for me.

Even at these low charges I never had a FTE/cycling issue.

 

[Hondo 60]

Going too low can also cause a squib load (bullet gets stuck in the barrel).
Your next shot would be disastrous!

I've never heard of starting 10% below minimum.
10% below max, yes, but not below min.

 

[FlyinBryan]

my main fear in regards to going well below suggested starting loads is squibbing a round and then blowing my guns up.

naturally this is overcautious but i usually am to a flaw (to compensate for my usual general idiocrasy, lol)

i have never loaded below suggested minimun loads. (but i know ppl do it all the time w no problems....... also of interest, i always work loads till i like the function and accuracy, then load that way for a given bullet/propellant combo from then on.

its almost always on the upper end of the load window.

 

[LiveLife]

its almost always on the upper end of the load window.

Powder burn will be more consistent at higher range load data as chamber pressure increases.

For me, most of the accurate test loads end up at the high to near max load data. Practice/target loads end up at mid to high range load data.


As for my 3.8 gr below starting load, this is the current Hodgdon's load data:

180 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231/HP38 .400" 1.125" OAL Start 4.1 gr (797 fps) - Max 5.0 gr (947 fps)

 

[JDGray]

There are only a few powders that are dangerous to go below minumum, one being WIN296, the possibility of a detonation being the reason. I load Power Pistol well below min data, and have no problems, never stuck a bullet, great accuracy. If you work down slow, and watch for a hole every shot, you should be fine. Alot of powders will get dirty on ya when you download, so faster powders should help keep things clean.

 

[Steve C]

10% below the published "start" load

Most load data used to be listed at max load and the hand loader was to do the math and reduce the max load by 10% to develop the safe start load and work up to no more than the maximum.

A load that is less than 10% of the maximum load is generally considered a "light load". Light loads often don't have the velocity to cycle a semi auto but can be shot by hand cycling the action for use by new or young shooters that may have difficulty handling the recoil of a full standard load.

Because many people are math challenged they began to list start loads which if you do the math you will find they're generally a 10% reduction from the max load listed. Any load data that lists only one load level, that load level is the maximum load and you need to reduce that level by 10% to get a start load.

 

[Peter_S]

Steve - that makes more sense.

I'll admit, those first few were pretty smokey

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not going to argue with anyone let alone a new reloader about not going below the recommended Min load data. I can only give my advice, you do what you want with it but please don't tell me I'm wrong just because you feel it's so or think there's no danger. No need to listen to what I say but don't denigrate what I say either.

Nothing wrong with dipping just below the Min data but 1 full grain below minimum when that 1 grain represents 20% below the starting charge is a very bad idea, even if you disagree. A charge of only 3.7gr is a full 28% below the Max charge of 5.1gr recommended by Hodgdon but heck, what do I know?

I'm done with this thread, good luck and have fun reloading...

 

[J_McLeod]

I'm not going to argue with anyone let alone a new reloader about not going below the recommended Min load data. I can only give my advice, you do what you want with it but please don't tell me I'm wrong just because you feel it's so or think there's no danger. No need to listen to what I say but don't denigrate what I say either.

Nothing wrong with dipping just below the Min data but 1 full grain below minimum when that 1 grain represents 20% below the starting charge is a very bad idea, even if you disagree. A charge of only 3.7gr is a full 28% below the Max charge of 5.1gr recommended by Hodgdon but heck, what do I know?

I'm done with this thread, good luck and have fun reloading...

According to Lyman's 49th Edition Reloading manual, I'm actually above the starting load. Is Lyman wrong or Hodgdon? Can both be right?

 

[918v]

Some powders are known to actually go higher on the pressure with under-sized loads. I don't believe Win231 is one of these, but as a general rule Mr Angel is correct. It's simply not a good reloading habit. Can you go 0.1gr lower for a tight bullet or some other special circumstance, why sure. It's not chiseled in stone.

We are talking about the 9mm and 231 in this thread, not a 45 Colt anf H110. Since the relationship between the powder charge and the OAL is critical in the 9mm, going below a published starting load is not a bad idea.

I have found a 124gr TC at 1.050" to be pretty close to max with a 3.8gr charge of 231. You can't load that bullet to 1.169" because it is in the riflig at 1.080" in my gun.

When loading the 9mm, you can't talk in general terms. 9mm chambers and bores vary all over the place. What works in a Beretta might not work in a Luger.

 

[Peter_S]

According to Lyman's 49th Edition Reloading manual, I'm actually above the starting load. Is Lyman wrong or Hodgdon? Can both be right?

The only way to figure out the Lyman discrepancy is to figure out the seating depth of their tested bullet compared to the other sources.

In my references Lyman used a Hornady hollow point at an OAL of 1.090"

Hodgdon used a Speer hollow point at a 1.125" OAL.

Assuming the bullets are similar dimensions (which I don't...but for sake of argument) the Lyman cartridge has a smaller finished case volume so they can use a lighter load.

My biggest frustration in finding a new load starting point is the lack of specifics from source to source. I'd prefer to know the seating depth or the specific bullet length rather than JUST the final COAL.

 

[918v]

You should invest in Quick Load. While some think it is too inaccurate for pistol loads, I have found it invaluable for adjusting OAL and starting load data in the 9mm. If your load manual shows that A + B = C, then you can use QL to adjust OAL or the powder charge to match the pressure, whatever it may be.

 

[J_McLeod]

Where do you get Quick Load?

 

[rfwobbly]

Mr McLeod -
It's not enough to quote powder loads only, you've also got to give us the OALs and bullet types. Friend, the devil is in the details. This is like trying to discover the better tasting apple, when all we're being given is the length of the stem.

Often times when a powder load is higher the OAL is also longer.

 

[DeadboltSecurity]

Quick Load can be had from http://www.neconos.com/

 

[Seedtick]

Howdy there DeadboltSecurity.

Welcome to THR. Glad to see ya.

Make yourself at home.

Seedtick

 

[J_McLeod]

Mr McLeod -
It's not enough to quote powder loads only, you've also got to give us the OALs and bullet types. Friend, the devil is in the details. This is like trying to discover the better tasting apple, when all we're being given is the length of the stem.

Often times when a powder load is higher the OAL is also longer.

Magtech 115gr FMJs and Rainier 124gr HPs, both to an OAL of 1.15X. Going to have to mess with the OALs a bit to find what works best in the future.