9mm Tips & Traps

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Foto Joe

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I realize that I'm about to open a carton of snakes with this question, but I figure it's better to ask now instead of getting additional practice with a bullet puller.

I have NO experience loading for a semi-auto, I load only for wheel guns. I just got my die set for 9mm and am about to put a few loads together to test. Here's what I've got to work with.

Gun: S&W Model 39
Brass: Mixed range pick-up purchased from GS
Bullets: 115 LRN (Bear Creek Molly Lubed)
Powder: Universal Clays
Dies: Lee 3-die Carbide

The only powder I have is the Universal and getting something different is not an option given my location right now. Hodgdon data calls for 4.0 starting load with 4.5 max. My plan unless somebody changes my mind is to start with 4.3gr.

I've heard that even with a Carbide sizer you should lube 9mm - True or False

I will assume that Maximum Overall Length is extremely important. The data sheet with dies states MOL 1.169" is there a +/- to that?

Since I almost never trim brass (I'm a Black Powder Cartridge loader), should I trim the brass after sizing or just punch the spent primer then trim? BTW I don't expect to have to trim with "Once" fired brass, or am I mistaken?

I can't think of any other questions right this second as I haven't loaded any therefore I haven't made my first mistake. My wish is to load these things for paper punching only and I'd rather have the gun perform in semi-auto mode than single shot.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
nix the lube, not required.
I doubt you will ever have to trim any straight-wall pistol case.
the 9mm is a hi-pressure round - the lrn will do fine with a moderate charge of powder, can't say about your choice though.
maybe you should be a loaded round gauge - a barrel would do though.
 
The biggest problem I have encountered with reloading 9mm is when at the range I have picked up used brass on the ground. Some of that brass was 9mm Marakrov (sp?) Looked 99% identical to 9mm Luger but is just a tad shorter. Could have caused a huge problem if it slipped through and was loaded.
 
The brass came from a gun shop and I'm making the assumption that it was range P/U brass due to being not real clean. I tumbled it but I haven't sorted it yet, I'll do that this morning as soon as I find a magnifying glass. The ones that I spot checked at the shop all said 9mm Luger on them but out of 120 I probably only checked 15 or so.

Also, the reason I'm usin Universal is because at the time that's what I could get my hands on that I had loading data for 38 Spl. I realize now that it's not the ideal powder for 38 or 9mm but until it's gone it will have to do.

Marlin 45 Carbine said:
maybe you should be a loaded round gauge - a barrel would do though
Click to expand...

Maybe I can't read but you're gonna have to explain this last line to me.
 
I'm sure you'll be pleased with shooting your reloads through your M39.

Let's start with the COL. Field strip your weapon and remove the barrel from the frame. If it's in need of cleaning, then clean it from the breach end. Now take a commercial 9mm Luger round and drop it into the chamber. When it chambers note the "clink" sound it makes and how far the round goes into the chamber. Now make a dummy round of your resized brass and one of your LRN bullets. Seat the bullet to 1.169" and drop it into the chamber. Does it sound like the commercial round? Does it drop into the chamber as far as the commercial round? If yes, then you can load your rounds out to SAAMI maximum COL with this bullet. If not, then make small changes to the COL, seating the bullet progressively deeper into the case, and test each one until your hear the same sound as the commercial round, and the round seats to the same point as the commercial round. Subtract .005" from this length, and this becomes your new maximum COL. (ADDED: for 115gr LRN bullets, a COL of 1.140" will usually work well, and will keep enough of the bullet in the case to provide good friction between the case and the bullet.)

Lubing your 9mm Luger brass before resizing... some swear by it... I've never done it, as I've never seen the need with carbide dies. YMMV

If you want to trim your 9mm Luger brass to a uniform length, then go for it. Doesn't hurt anything. A taper crimp is not as sensitive to brass length, however. Also, I wouldn't trim any auto pistol brass to .010" less than published maximum length, as they tend to shorten with use rather than lengthen. This is because the case mouth bangs into the end of the chamber upon feeding, and this peening action keeps the brass from growing. If you decide to trim, then I suggest a trim length of .750" for the 9mm Luger.

My final suggestion is to be very careful with COL on the 9mm Luger. Make sure you test your first loaded round for bullet setback. (Measure the COL of a completed round, and then with your thumb press the nose of the bullet firmly into a wooden surface. If the COL decreases, you have a friction problem between the case and the bullet, and the bullet may be pushed back into the case upon feeding from the magazine. This can raise pressures astronomically. This problem cannot usually be fixed by using more taper crimp.)

This all sounds much more involved than it really is, and most only needs to be done once (if you keep good notes that is...).
 
Last edited:
Sort out any military brass. The mouth of the primer pocket is crimped to retain the primer. After decapping, the crimp creates a burr along the rim of the primer pocket that will snag primers during the priming process.

The crimp has to be removed either by use of a special tool that swages and reforms the primer pocket mouth or it can be removed by hand with the chamfer end of a deburring tool.

Good luck!
 
After you determined the max OAL using the barrel, next determine the ideal OAL by function check by feeding/chambering from the magazine and manually releasing the slide. If the dummy round won't feed/chamber reliably, you may need to decrease the OAL even more.

Once you determined the ideal OAL, then you can move to working up your powder charges.
 
Great info!

This is exactly why I posted the question BEFORE I started loading.

How do I tell what's military and what's not? Do I need to de-cap to tell or are the marked in some way?
 
The only people who lube the 9mm are the ones who use a progressive press. It makes sizing easier. If you have a single stage, don't do it. It's a waste of time.

Your Bear Creek 115 OAL should start at 1.169" and, as Ridgway suggested, come down until the round drops in and out of the chamber freely.

I would find a free-dropping OAL, then load five at 4grs, five at 4.2grs, and five at 4.4grs to test. Then, taking the most accurate and safe load, I would decrease OAL by .010" to see if it tightens further. This would be my first step. If these combinations suck, I would try a different primer. If it still sucks, I would redo the test using a drastically shorter OAL, something like 1.125" to start, again going from min (or even below that depending on your earlier results) to max.

9mm's are picky and sensitive to component changes and OAL. This one will keep you busy for months.
 
How do I tell what's military and what's not? Do I need to de-cap to tell or are the marked in some way?
Click to expand...

Commercial brass does not use dates. It just says the brand name and the caliber. Military brass has abbreviated brand names and dates and funky symbols. Some has crimped-in primers even. You can easily tell. If I were you, I'd use commercial brass and sort it by headstamp.
 
Lube on 9mm is TOTAL waste of time.

Do watch for the occasional 9mm makarov brass. Ut will say "9mm M" usually.

Also I use universal and my 9mm's love it. It meters well and is very clean. I have no plans to ever try a different powder. I've found the higher end of the charge to be more accurate in my 92f and SR9c. I load 4.5g and do pretty good with missouri bullet company 115lrn.

One last comment. The hodgon website lists the 115 lrn as 1.110" if memory serves me right. My groups in both 9mm guns were slightly better at 1.120" oal. Im not sure that the lube ring would be all the way in the case if you only seat to 1.690" as mentioned above.
 
The majority of the brass is R-P (Remington?), with just under half being PMC. The last two dozen are marked 9x19 at the top of the head with an "L" on the left and a "Y" to the right of the primer. At the bottom of the primer is the number 93. May I assume that I am looking at military or law enforcement brass with these?
 
Also, the reason I'm usin Universal is because at the time that's what I could get my hands on that I had loading data for 38 Spl. I realize now that it's not the ideal powder for 38 or 9mm but until it's gone it will have to do.
Click to expand...

Universal is a very good powder for a wide variety of uses - very similar to Unique in that regard, plus it is cleaner burning - nothing wrong with it.
 
Joe - I'm going to go against the consensus about lube. I lube a few cases and throw a lubed case into the press about every 5th one. The lube seems to be retained making the next 4 or 5 cases "feel" like they were lubed.

This takes ALL the work out of sizing, and I'm partial to less work...lol!
 
Again, thanks for all the info. I've finished sorting and I'm going to load the R-P brass, I will take the suggestion of 4.0, 4.2 and 4.4gr from 918v to heart and do that.

I've adjusted all the dies and made up 10 dummies that measure 1.165 +/- .002 at the most. They've been loaded in the magazine four times and each cycled through with no problems. The first three times I just pulled the slide back and let it slam forward by letting go. The last time I locked the slide back after ejecting each round then released it via the slide release. It looks like the S&W likes this length. I did dis-assemble and drop them into the chamber before doing the loading test and all appeared good. Unfortunately, I don't have any factory rounds to play with so I'm just going on the fact that they chambered in the barrel with a positive "clink" and went all the way in.

So...on to putting some of these things together and going out to see if I can hit a bullet with a broad side of a barn with them. Hopefully I won't be returning to practice with the hated bullet puller.
 
9mm crimp

9mm is tapered, but sizing straightens it out. I would recommend sizing a couple, crimping without a bullet and checking how much crimp your gun needs. Then set your OAL. Some chambers are more tapered than others. You may end up using a real short OAL when the taper is really the problem.
 
On PU brass, also watch out for Beardan primered brass as they will not have the center hole only 2 side holes and will probably push the deprimer up into the Collette. I've reloaded several hundred but only found one of these.
 
Lube on 9mm is TOTAL waste of time.
Click to expand...

Its obvious you have no idea how bad arthritis can hurt.

Joe - I'm going to go against the consensus about lube. I lube a few cases and throw a lubed case into the press about every 5th one. The lube seems to be retained making the next 4 or 5 cases "feel" like they were lubed.

This takes ALL the work out of sizing, and I'm partial to less work...lol!
Click to expand...

Absolutly, nothing like making life easier.
 
With carbide dies it's not 'required' to lube cases.

I use a turret press---basically a single stage with 4 holes/dies that rotate. The handle "pull" required IS MUCH LESS with lubed cases.

When cleaning my cases in the tumbler, adding NU Finish makes the cases slippery and reduces the handle pull effort almost as much as a resizing lube.

After several hundred rounds the pull being 'less' is a BIG factor for me. YMMV.
 
If your mod 39 has a chamber like my S&W 5906, you'll discover you need a shorter COL. Max length for the 5906 with the 115 LRN I use comes out to 1.125.
All my other 9mm's can go as long as 1.145.

Instead of buying case lube, I have found that a small amount of plain old furniture polish does a nice job slicking up the case just enough to make sizing easier with my tired old bones.
I lay out a piece of old flannel shirt on my loading table, give it a spritz of polish and roll the cases by the handfull over the material. Makes life easier if you have any shoulder or wrist problems like us old geezers.
 
I agree with lubing the cases anyways. Made it easier for me. Someone suggested putting the cases in a bag and spraying some One Shot in the bag. Going to try that next.

The easiest way to tell military brass is this. ALL NATO military brass will have a cross hair symbol on the headstamp, regardless of country of origin or manufacturer.
 
As far as the lube is concerned, it seems that 9mm take some muscle to re-size so I wiped about every four or five with Ballistol and that helps considerably. I've heard more than one person has managed to stick a 9mm brass in the sizing die and I'd rather not have to deal with that.

I took my test rounds out to my favorite box canyon yesterday afternoon and I can tell you, I'm out of practice with a semi-auto!! The results are below.

Powder charge was 4.0gr, 4.2gr & 4.4gr all Universal with a 115gr LRN and Winchester Primer. If in case you can't read what I wrote on the targets they are left to right, lowest to highest charge.

After firing 8 rounds through for fouling these are the groups.

7Yards.jpg
7 Yards from rest.

15Yards.jpg
15 Yards from rest

This last one I found interesting. Since I normally shoot wheel guns, a couple of which are DA's I decided to put two magazines through at 7 Yards shooting only Double Action. After each shot I de-cocked the gun. Even though I'm high and right, the group was considerably better than I expected.
DA.jpg

I have my own ideas about which powder charge might be more accurate but for now I will keep that to myself, I don't want to contaminate any opinions. And lastly, YES I know, I need a LOT more practice with this gun. I can drill the center out of target at 15 yards with an 1851 Navy, a S&W Model 39 on the other hand does not appear to be my area of exertise.
 
nice shootin! are you getting any leading in your barrel? just curious. i shoot a lot of bear creek bullets.

murf
 
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