9th Circuit Opinion Reversed again: Good News!

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I must be missing something. All I find is some Supreme Court reversal which seems to indicate that when police execute a search warrant that never should have been issued in the first place, they can make innocent people stand around in their birthday suits. Maybe your link is incorrect, or I missed the relevant article.
 
Could someone explain this to me in English because maybe I am to tired to understand?
 
No, that case did not protect anyone's rights at all. It gave the police more ability to screw around with people.
 
LOL

My intent was to follow up my post immediately with something sarcastic, but the forum crashed just as I hit Submit.

So here goes, but when it's late, it's not funny any more.

Now if they can just discover this same strict constructionist interpretation for any ruling that DOESN'T result in the greatest possible power for (and even abuse of power by) the government, we'll do just great.:rolleyes:

They went for a very literal interpretation. There was a warrant, the police followed their procedure, therefore they were within the law to do what they did, according to the Supreme Oligarchy of Old Statist Farts.

Of course, by this logic, I suppose they could rule that the 2nd Amendment allows us to keep guns, and to use them, but not to buy them, and that the 1st Amendment only applies to words printed using a printing press, not a laser printer.

In all seriousness, the ruling pisses me off to no end, because it means that the police has even less accountability than we had thought.
 
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In all seriousness, the ruling pisses me off to no end, because it means that the police has even less accountability than we had thought.
I grant you that this is completely true, but this did not happen in a vacuum. We have elected officials who have a solemn duty to protect us from the excesses of LE who have completely failed in that duty. Why are they getting a pass?

LE agencies are run by human beings. It is the nature of most human beings to want more and more power. If the people we elect to protect us from that power refuse to do so, or actively collaborate in that power grab, we need to deal with that at the ballot box.

What should happen in these kind of cases is that the responsible elected official should have marched down to the LE agency chief and gave him an earful, and then reduced his budget by 5% just to make the point that rogue cops are not acceptable. Or maybe just found someone else to run the agency that is less likely to accept rogue behavior.
 
Here is a link to the ruling itself.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/06pdf/06-605.pdf


Brief history of incident:

A valid search warrant was issued for a home of two African-Americans that, unknown to the officer, had moved out a couple months earlier. During the search two Caucasian in a bedroom were ordered out of bed while the bedroom was searched. Being nude when they were ordered out of bed, they wear denied clothing for a few minutes while the room was searched. It was only after the search was completed that they confirmed the suspects they were looking for were not there.

Issue at hand:

Suit was brought to District court claiming the officers violated their 4th Amendment right by “obtaining a warrant in reckless fashion and conducting an unreasonable search and detention.” The District court ruled against the couple finding that the warrant was obtained legally and the search was reasonable.

On appeal to the 8th Circuit the validity of the warrant wasn’t challenged. What was argued was that unreasonable. The 8th Circuit found the the search was unreasonable based on the following:

“because (1) no African-Americans lived in [respon
dents’] home; (2) [respondents], a Caucasian couple,
purchased the residence several months before the
search and the deputies did not conduct an ownership
inquiry; (3) the African-American suspects were not
accused of a crime that required an emergency search;
and (4) [respondents] were ordered out of bed naked
and held at gunpoint while the deputies searched
their bedroom for the suspects and a gun, we find that
a reasonable jury could conclude that the search and
detention were ‘unnecessarily painful, degrading, or
prolonged,’ and involved ‘an undue invasion of pri
vacy,’ Franklin v. Foxworth, 31 F. 3d 873, 876 (9th
Cir. 1994).” Id., at 766.

The 8th Circuit said that the presence of Caucasian instead of African-Americans should have been sufficient proof to the officers that they had the wrong people. The Supremes disagreed with this ruling by the 8th Circuit based on its logical flaws. According to them:

"When the deputies ordered respondents from their bed,
they had no way of knowing whether the African-
American suspects were elsewhere in the house. The
presence of some Cau-casians in the residence did not
eliminate the possibility that the suspects lived there as
well. As the deputiesstated in their affidavits, it is not
uncommon in our societyfor people of different races
to live together. Just as peo-ple of different races live
and work together, so too mightthey engage in joint
criminal activity. The deputies, whowere searching a
house where they believed a suspectmight be armed,
possessed authority to secure the prem-ises before
deciding whether to continue with the search."

The Supremes also cited passed precedent rulings that say officers do have the right to secure the area they are searching of possible threats. They continued to say that it was reasonable for the officers to believe that weapons could be hidden under bedding or clothing. Also, the officers didn’t subject them to standing in the nude for an unreasonable amount of time, only for that time necessary to confirm the area is secure.

I actually agree with this ruling. The officers legally (and in good faith) obtained an executed a valid warrent. Based on the facts at hand to the officers I don't feel feel they overstepped the bounds of "reasonableness" in their actions while executing the warrent.

As others have said, this decision definitely doesn’t extend the 4th Amendment but it also doesn’t erode the 4th Amendment either.
 
Did I Miss Something?

How is this good news?

How was the warrant valid?

How do you get a warrant for a search of a) the wrong premises, b) premises where there is no probable cause that a crime has been committed?

I can understand that the officers-on-scene were just "doing their job" with a warrant they thought was valid.

What I can't understand is how the bloody warrant ever got issued.

The ruling evidently ignores the whole warrant validity issue and narrowly exonerates those executing that warrant.

Still trying to grasp why this is good.
 
Move along, nothing to see here. Nothing new, just another nail being hammered into the coffin being built by the Feds for the Constitution.
 
Arfin, see my second post for an explanation. It wasn't good news.

Zen21Tao-

I agree that the LEO's should not have been punished. They were doing their jobs.

However, I can't say I agree with the ruling. The ruling held that the couple who was erroneously held, butt-naked, for an extended period of time, could not sue for damages.

The fact was that, while the LEO's did their jobs, someone obviously failed at due diligence. If the warrant system was flawed, then those harmed should have civil recourse.

In a civil case against a private company, the law holds them responsible for injury due to a failure anywhere along the line, from R&D and engineering, all the way to production and distribution. Say your brand new car loses its steering on the freeway, and you are badly hurt in the ensuing wreck. It doesn't MATTER how the failure happened; the maker of the car is responsible for compensating you, whether the flaw was in engineering, production or distribution, if the failure was their fault.

The same should go for law enforcement. In this case, there was a failure, and there was no accountability. It shouldn't have been the LEO's who took the fall, but SOMEONE was responsible for this, right?
 
Per California Government Code, Sections 821, 845, and 846: "Neither a public entity or a public employee [may be sued] for failure to provide adequate police protection or service, failure to prevent the commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals.''
Thus employees of the government in CA, even if they make mistakes in the performance of their jobs cannot be sued. The decision was the right one, for mistakes will always happen. If people were allowed to sue for mistakes made in the lawful performance of duty, it would ultimately lead to destruction of the very foundations of organized government.

As to why the warrant was valid in the first place....unless you've bought a house, you might have no idea how long it takes for the recording of the deed to be entered into government records. When we bought our house, it took almost three months before the transfer of deed was officially recorded by local government. Had there been some criminals who lived in the house previously, I could easily see how a warrant could be issued, but found to be incorrect later.
 
Lemon328i said:
As to why the warrant was valid in the first place....unless you've bought a house, you might have no idea how long it takes for the recording of the deed to be entered into government records. When we bought our house, it took almost three months before the transfer of deed was officially recorded by local government. Had there been some criminals who lived in the house previously, I could easily see how a warrant could be issued, but found to be incorrect later.
That is a valid point. On the other hand, this is a scary "oops". I know it happens repeatedly, and will continue to happen. No keyboard commando crap from me, but this would have played out diffently in some households, and there would have been no winners. How could there be?
 
However, I can't say I agree with the ruling. The ruling held that the couple who was erroneously held, butt-naked, for an extended period of time, could not sue for damages.

They weren't forced to stand nude 'and extended period of time.' The Supremes acknowledged that this would have been a violation of the 4th Amendment. The entire search only the officers 15 minutes. Of those 15 minutes, the couple was only made to stand nude for 2 to 3 minutes. This was long enough for the officers to secure the house and verify no threats. After these 2-3 minutes the couple was allowed to get dressed and sit on a couch while the officers verified their story.

I am by no means an LEO apologist, but I don't think they acted inappropriate here based on the info they had on hand when they executed the warrant


The fact was that, while the LEOs did their jobs, someone obviously failed at due diligence. If the warrant system was flawed, then those harmed should have civil recourse.

I agree with you, it was not their fault that this change in ownership of the residence hadn’t yet been updated. In this case the officers followed all the proper channels to obtain the warrant. The problem was the residence in question switched hands only 2 months prior to the search. While we all would like things to happen immediately, Lemon328i is correct, bureaucracy takes time.
 
How could that have been a valid warrant?
The suspects had moved out THREE months before and the new owners had bought the house.
I don't know about where you live; but where I do, transfer of title is a public record and within 48 hours of that happening I get a box full of junkmail from mortgage companies, contractors and all other kinds of riff raff.
If the cops had done an address search; they might have discovered this sale of the property. Then pull up DL of the owners and voila, "these are not the drones we are looking for"

Had the suspects moved out the day before, I could understand; but three months ago - comeon. How slow were they proceeding with this case anyways.
 
No-knock invasions, except in hostage situations, should be illegal under any circumstances. If the police ever shake me awake by breaking down my door without clearly stating and proving that they are the police, a lot of people, including members of my family, are going to die.

The war on certain people using certain drugs is without a doubt the most destructive war america has ever faced.
 
Please people READ the history of the case.

When the Supremes rule on a case they are only ruling and a specific issue (or issues) raised. In this case the issue was not whether the warrant was valid. I repeat, whether anyone thinks the warrant was valid or not doesn't matter as the Supremes weren't charged with deciding this. What they were charged with was deciding whether, under the givin circumstances, being made to stand naked for between one to two minutes while the officers secured the location made the search unreasonable.

But, in regards to the validity of the warrant, it was valid because the officers fulfilled all the legal requirements to obtain it. What is at question is whether or not the legal requirements are strong enough to prevent mistakes like this. I would say they are not and they should be strengthened. However, until these requirements are changed, warranted obtained by following them will continue to be valid.

Also, this WAS NOT and no knock warrant. The officers knocked and announced the presence. It was only after a male answered the door that the officers ordered him to the ground and proceeded to the bedroom where the new residents were.
 
When we bought our house, it took almost three months before the transfer of deed was officially recorded by local government.

Hmmm...

I've bought and sold here in California, and AFAIK it's a shorter time here. Oh, it's not quick, but it's no 90 days. Maybe I'm wrong.

If that was the problem, the lawsuit should have been against whatever local entity was responsible for recording the deed.:)
 
Hmmm...

I've bought and sold here in California, and AFAIK it's a shorter time here. Oh, it's not quick, but it's no 90 days. Maybe I'm wrong.

The initial recording is done by the title company at closing, but the official final recording by the bureau of records took a long time. I suspect that for the purposes of law enforcement, only the final recorded deed counts and is entered into the electronic databases.
 
If people were allowed to sue for mistakes made in the lawful performance of duty, it would ultimately lead to destruction of the very foundations of organized government.

The very foundations of organized government...

You mean things like a complete lack of responsibility for their actions and arbitrary and capricious decision making?
 
I agree with you, it was not their fault that this change in ownership of the residence hadn’t yet been updated. In this case the officers followed all the proper channels to obtain the warrant. The problem was the residence in question switched hands only 2 months prior to the search. While we all would like things to happen immediately, Lemon328i is correct, bureaucracy takes time.
I can go along with this decision, until we get to the "only 2 months" part. Two months is 60 to 62 days, almost nine WEEKS. I don't see how anyone can reasonably claim there is any validity to information on the possible whereabouts of shady characters when the most recent information is AT LEAST (remember, the couple BOUGHT the house two months prior. Who knows how long before that was the last time the police actually had any information linking their suspects to that address) two months old.

Unreasonable search, IMHO.
 
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