9th Circuit: Parents have no rights.....

[Beethoven]

Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47195


Excerpt:

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled yesterday against parents who sued their local school district after their elementary-age children were given a sexually charged survey, saying there is "no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children."

The three-judge panel of the full court further ruled that parents "have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students."

Six parents sued the Palmdale, Calif., School District after finding out their kids had been asked a series of sexual questions in class. They included asking the children about the frequency of:

Touching my private parts too much

Thinking about having sex

Thinking about touching other people's private parts

Thinking about sex when I don't want to

Washing myself because I feel dirty on the inside

Not trusting people because they might want sex

Getting scared or upset when I think about sex

Having sex feelings in my body

Can't stop thinking about sex

Getting upset when people talk about sex

 

[Beethoven]

Doesn't anybody give a crap??????

 

[Old Fuff]

Yes, I do. Even though I don't have any children involved. I understand from another news accout that some if the children involved were in the first grade!

While these schools are going off on this sort of stuff, kids aren't being taught to read, write, and do simple math. I would hope that the concerned parents pull their children out of this mess and find educational alternatives.

 

[buzz_knox]

It's the 9th Circuit. What did you expect?

"The 9th Circuit goes off the deep end. In other news, gravity causes apples to fall, and water causes things to get wet."

 

[dasmi]

I decided a few years ago that when I have kids, they are going to private school, or being home schooled. Period.

 

[Camp David]

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled yesterday against parents who sued their local school district after their elementary-age children were given a sexually charged survey, saying there is "no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children."

The 9th Circuit judges are out of control. We all know that. Problem is, these judges are appointed for life, thus they can make moronic judgments, throw them out there and nothing can be done until a higher court overturns them.

What to do?

Find one of the 9th Circuit judges that has children... provide these children with porno films using the same logic as their ruling that you are giving them educational materials... see what happens!

Naw... let's just get the entire 9th Circuit thrown out for incompetence and reckless endangerment of kids.....

 

[Henry Bowman]

To me, it is equally scary that the "data" collected from this might be considered reliable and used to support some other intrusive project or scheme.

 

[Cosmoline]

there is "no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children."

I've reviewed the federal Constitution and for once the 9th got it right. There is indeed no fundamental right under federal law for parents to be exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children. Parents who want to pull their kids from public school can certainly do so and either put them in private school or in a growing majority of states homeschool them.

You people who complain about the overreaching of federal courts need to remember--IF IT AIN'T ON THE PAGE, IT AIN'T ON THE STAGE. You can't just look to your gut feelings about what should or should not be a fundamental right. We've already seen what happens when courts go down that road and it's not pretty.

 

[Sindawe]

Doesn't anybody give a crap??????

Dude, its the middle of the day, most of our membership is at work at the moment, give it some time.

And yes, *I* do give a as well. Even though I don't really like kids, this kind of dren really chaps my hide. Frelling school boards that support bypassing parental control of their kids education/upbringing need to be tarred, feathered and hung out in the town center as raven food.

 

[Old Dog]

there is "no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children."

I agree with Cosmoline ... And what parent (with any common sense) believes that he/she will be the exclusive provider of information regarding sex to his/her children? I suspect most of you learned far more about sexual matters in/around your grade schools, far earlier than when your parents finally gave you the birds and the bees talk ...

This is not just about sex ... do any of you really believe that you have the fundamental right to be the exclusive provider of ALL learning to your children?

 

[Cosmoline]

Why should it be the job of the federal court system to enforce parental rights in a fight with the local school board? This is exactly the kind of creeping jurisdiction that's been undermining federalism for decades. And people who demand that the federal courts take some action in cases like this are a big part of the problem. THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM A FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE!!

 

[rick_reno]

Maybe this ruling will give parents the push they seem to need to take care of their children - and stop making them wards of the state.

 

[Camp David]

I've reviewed the federal Constitution and for once the 9th got it right. There is indeed no fundamental right under federal law for parents to be exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children...

Please point me to the part in the Constitution that tells schools to indoctrinate students with information about sex.

If schools assume this right under a puboic awareness statute, let me know when children will receive firing range instruction for safe pistol handling.

 

[Cosmoline]

Please point me to the part in the Constitution that tells schools to indoctrinate students with information about sex.

If schools assume this right under a puboic awareness statute, let me know when children will receive firing range instruction for safe pistol handling.

Education is a LOCAL ISSUE not a Federal one. The federal Constitution simply has nothing to say on the subject of sex education, and that's exactly how it should be.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

This isn't about parents "being the exclusive provider of information". It's about indoctrination. The lib extremists in the schools and in the courts want to be able to indoctrinate all of the children with views and ideas that many parents find offensive and dangerous.

So, should the parents have the rigtht to oppose this indoctrination? Or should the gov be allowed to program your children with whatever harmful ideas it wants? Who "owns" these children, their families or the politicos in the classrooms and courtrooms?

It ain't right, but the parents oughta know better than to send their children to government school in a place like california. They also oughta know better than to expect sanity or justice from the 9th circuit.

 

[Father Knows Best]

Why should it be the job of the federal court system to enforce parental rights in a fight with the local school board? This is exactly the kind of creeping jurisdiction that's been undermining federalism for decades. And people who demand that the federal courts take some action in cases like this are a big part of the problem. THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM A FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE!!

+1. We need to distinguish between the questions of (1) whether the school was right to circulate this survey (it wasn't); and (2) whether the federal courts are the appropriate place to bring this complaint (they aren't). If the courts are going to enjoin the school from providing information about sex that the parents of one or two students object to, then what prevents them from enjoining the school from providing information that some other parent objects to? Should parents be able to sue in federal court to keep the schools from revealing to their children that there is no Santa Claus?

If you don't want your kids exposed to information you didn't personally filter and approve, then you need to home school your kids. In addition, you should probably move to a shack in the woods, throw out your TV, and keep watch lest some wandering infidel get within earshot of your young'uns.

Seriously, though, there are ways to gain better control over the education of your children. They're called private schools. When I was growing up, we also knew them as parochial schools. Find one that closely matches your personal beliefs and value, and enroll your kids in it. Stay involved so you know the curriuculum (sp?). Talk to your kids about what they're learning. Be prepared to present alternative views, and teach your kids to be critical listeners and independent thinkers.

And stay the heck out of the courts....

 

[Cosmoline]

They also oughta know better than to expect sanity or justice from the 9th circuit.

This is one case where the 9th was doing exactly what it should have done. Please point to me where the federal Constitution discusses the rights of parents to keep a school from teaching their kids about sex. This is not a federal issue--not by a longshot.

 

[Father Knows Best]

By the way, the right venue to challenge the school's dissemination of this kind of information is ... the school board. It's a public body. It holds meetings. It is answerable to an electorate. Go to the meetings. Make a fuss. Alert the media. Run for the school board yourself, or campaign for someone of similar views. It's called "the political process", and it's a far better means than a lawsuit.

 

[SMMAssociates]

I don't see anything wrong with a survey like this for kids in about seventh grade & up, if done anonymously....

Burying our heads in the sand or trying to make believe that sex doesn't exist isn't going to help anything, even if we don't believe in letting the schools teach 'em about it or provide "protection"....

However, kids younger than around 13 aren't necessarily equipped to provide answers.

The Court probably should keep it's nose out of this, but I don't like to see schools run from the courthouse either - this case seems to tell me that the parents shouldn't have brought the suit in the first place....

There should have been a better way to block this.

I was kicking this around with a friend the other day - it seems that people get on school boards because they're cranked off about some issue or other. That seems to be the only way to change "policy". Lots of goofy "policy" out there....

Perhaps we need to change that....

Regards,

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

This is one case where the 9th was doing exactly what it should have done. Please point to me where the federal Constitution discusses the rights of parents to keep a school from teaching their kids about sex. This is not a federal issue--not by a longshot.

It's about the power of schools to indoctrinate children. The parents say the schools (aka the government) doesn't have this power. The gov says it does.

The 10th Ammendment seems to back up the parents. So does the complete lack of any delegated authority anywhere in the.

Also, most moral values regarding sex are based upon religious convictions. Any attempt by the government to undermine these values is a clear violation of the individuals right to practice his religion.

It seems that "separation of church and state" only applies against the evil right-wing. If a teacher wants to force children to accept that some of the precepts their religion are wrong, well, that's pefectly OK...

 

[Cosmoline]

The 10th Ammendment seems to back up the parents. So does the complete lack of any delegated authority anywhere in the constitution that speaks to this supposed power.

The 10th deals with FEDERAL power, not state power vs. parental control. The federal Constitution has NOTHING TO DO with this issue. You'd have to look to the state law and state constitution.

Also, most moral values regarding sex are based upon religious convictions. Any attempt by the government to undermine these values is a clear violation of the individuals right to practice his religion. It seems that "separation of church and state" only applies against the evil right-wing. If a teacher wants to teach that some of the precepts my religion are wrong, well, that's pefectly OK...

This argument at least ties in with the Constitution--but it's the flip side of the same bad coin that's brought a lot of idiotic federal court interventions in school activities such as religious education or the pledge to the flag. You can't have one side of that coin without the other. If you want the 9th to intervene here, you cannot complain if they intervene in other respects on 1st Amendment grounds. What's sauce for the goose and all that. I say take all the sauce and dump it in the ocean. It's bad stuff. For once the 9th did the right thing here.

 

[Camp David]

Education is a LOCAL ISSUE not a Federal one. The federal Constitution simply has nothing to say on the subject of sex education, and that's exactly how it should be.

Then schools shouldn't instruct it. Parents should be the primary source of information on this topic. The 9th Circuit HAS NO BUSINESS making such a ruling. If it was my kids and the 9th Circuit made such an asinine ruling, I would pulll my kids out of school!

 

[Cosmoline]

Then schools shouldn't instruct it. Parents should be the primary source of information on this topic. The 9th Circuit HAS NO BUSINESS making such a ruling. If it was my kids and the 9th Circuit made such an asinine ruling, I would pulll my kids out of school!

What sex education local schools teach or do not teach is NOT A FEDERAL ISSUE. There seems to be a shocking lack of knowledge here about what the federal Constitution is and what the federal government is supposed to be doing. Education has always been a LOCAL issue. The moves at more federal control have been recent and are highly disturbing. What's even more disturbing is to see people who are supposed to be conservatives and libertarians scream for the 9th circuit to stick its filthy paws into the middle of a purely local education issue.

There is no single "government" in control of everything. We're supposed to be a federal republic with fifty sovereign states joined in a union. The states are the ones who are supposed to control education. You won't even find education mentioned in the federal Constitution, let alone what schools should or should not teach.

 

[CentralTexas]

Well I recall

most of us? -At least I learned about sex at school, just not through official channels!
CT

 

[Old Dog]

Who "owns" these children, their families or the politicos in the classrooms and courtrooms?

Um, I don't own my children. Nor do I believe that I should restrict their rights to be exposed to belief systems or information that I may or may not be opposed to (within reason, of course) ... I have taught my children to challenge authority, to question what they're told and to exercise their own critical thinking skills. My children will make their own life decisions, and I can hope only that they keep in mind some of the values and ethics I've attempted, over the years, to instill in them ...

Then schools shouldn't instruct it. Parents should be the primary source of information on this topic.

Good luck with that. Actually, my belief is that parents should instruct their children on sexual morals and values, but the schools are often better prepared to instruct the children on biology and health issues, STDs, etc., than most parents ...