9x18 reloading - what gives?

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Well, I got my dies, brass, and berry's bullets to reload 9x18 Makarov today and got the dies set up and good to go with the proper powder disc (the .43 disc throws 3.6 grains of HP38 on my press). Here's my issue though. The Fiocchi brass that I bought does not seem to sit securely enough in the shell holder, which causes two problems....first of all, when the primer is supposed to be seated, the shell pops up out of the shell holder almost invariably. If I hold the brass in place, forcing it deep into the shell holder, I can manually get the primer to seat, usually. Assuming that happens, I have to be careful not to let the shell pop up again after it's been charged with powder. The shell holder that came with the die set is the same one that's used for 9x19, but the 9x18 must be a bit smaller. Has anyone else had this problem with Lee dies and the 9x18? Is anyone else RELOADING the 9x18? Hehehe!

Let me know and thanks guys,

Warner
 
I reload 9x18, but I used trimmed 9x19 brass -- so of course the regular 9mm shellholder works. Probably doesn't help you much...
 
Welcome to reloading and thanks for asking our advice.

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I am told (but have no first-hand knowledge) that Lee shell holders are not sized too precisely. That is, they use the same shell holders for different cartridges if they are close enough. The 9mm Makarov is .390" diameter rim and the 9mm Parabellum is .394"

I would call Lee and see if they will send you a shell holder that is closer to the proper size for your brass. They are usually very helpful. If they say the two cartridges use the same shell holder be sure they understand what is happening. Maybe you got an oversized shell holder. If they send you another, it might fit better.

If that fails, RCBS, Redding, Hornady shell holders will fit your press and might fit your brass better. Cost about $7 to $10.

It ain't right that you should have to pay for something that should work, but sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet.

Lost Sheep
 
Lee makes two shell holders for 9mm.
#6 or #19.

The #19 is the universal 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm "one-size-fits-none" size.
The #6 is more better as it is about .006 smaller and actually intended for the 9mm.

It should work with the 9mm MAK as well.

But if you want one that really fits like it should, get an RCBS #16.

Here is a shell holder cross-referance chart:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=Shell Holder Chart

rc
 
Lee makes about 23 shell holders. Other companies make up to 52 different shell holders, so while Lee shell holders work fairly well about 93% of the time, if you really need the proper one(s), you should buy another brand.
 
Which shell holder came with the dies, the #6 or the #19? If it's the #19 I would call Lee and tell them the problem and have them send you the #6 for free. If you need to buy one I would go with the RCBS over the others.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Which shell holder came with the dies, the #6 or the #19? If it's the #19 I would call Lee and tell them the problem and have them send you the #6 for free. If you need to buy one I would go with the RCBS over the others.
Click to expand...
Hey guys....thanks to all who replied. I DID get the #19 shell holder with the 9x18 die set, so essentially the same one that I already had that came with the 9x19 die set. I will either call Lee or just go and buy the RCBS #16 one that you suggested. I can NOT see me reloading any real quantity with the Lee #19.

Thanks again...as usual, you guys have all the answers!

Warner
 
The plot thickens

Okay...since my last post, I ran over to the local Cabelas and bought BOTH the RCBS #16 and the Hornady #8 shellholders. They both appeared to work SLIGHTLY better than the Lee one, but it wasn't until I pulled one of my once-fired 9x18 brass from the tumbler and it loaded perfectly that I found the real source of the problem. I bought the wrong brass! I THOUGHT I was buying 9x18 Makarov brass, but what I think I got was 9x18 Ultra brass. I clicked on 9x18 without paying attention, or really KNOWING that there was such a thing as 9x18 Ultra. I wonder if Grafs will let me return the unloaded brass (I only "loaded" about 30 of the 500 cases that I ordered. Proabably a pretty good thing that I realized my mistake......

Warner
 
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Trying to shoot .380 in a 9x18 chambered gun is just silly.

OP: I was thinking there was more to the tale than a shell holder...

I load a fair bit of 9x18 and never had an issue with Lee shell holders being the wrong size.

Glad you got your issue sorted out. Hopefully Graf's can accommodate you on a return.
 
Twmaster said:
Trying to shoot .380 in a 9x18 chambered gun is just silly.

OP: I was thinking there was more to the tale than a shell holder...

I load a fair bit of 9x18 and never had an issue with Lee shell holders being the wrong size.

Glad you got your issue sorted out. Hopefully Graf's can accommodate you on a return.
Click to expand...
Yeah, agreed. I have not had any issues with the Lee equipment. Just a dumb rookie mistake on my part ordering the wrong brass....I saw 9x18 Fiochi and thought I was in business. I have since bought 600 pieces of Starline brass off of Gunbroker for a cost of $50 including shipping, so I'll be back in business soon. Hopefully Graf's will let me return the incorrect brass....I sent them an email yesterday and would expect to hear back from the tomorrow hopefully. Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.

Warner
 
Sounds like someone needs to buy a 380. :)

On second thought, I'd try to send back what I could. Trimming 1mm length from 470 pieces of brass wouldn't be fun. And the stuff might still be too fat for a .380 chamber.
 
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A quick search turned these two posts up for me:

"Jedi, the 9mm Ultra was developed by the Germans during WW2. It is my understanding that it is basically a .380 with a case that is 1mm longer. (.380=9x17, 9mm Ultra=9x18) It never went anywhere at the time, but it was reintroduced in the '70s by Walther who renamed it 9mm Police and sold the PP Super which fired it. IIRC, SIG also offered P230s in this caliber."

AND

"The real interesting thing about 9mm Ultra is it was developed as the most powerful thing you could fire from a fairly compact pistol in a blowback action. SIG P-230 was chambered in it as well as a few Walther PP Supers. the Makarov and it's 9x18mm round is based partially on WWII german research acquired by the Russians and i think they succeded in combining german efficiency with russian durability and reliability. if you're limited to FMJ by the Hague Accords 9mm Makarov or 9mm Ultra matches 9mm Parabellum because it tends to overpenetrate.

the 9mm Ultra fires a 100grain bullet at about 1000fps
specialized 9mm Makarov loads fire a 109 grain bullet at about 1015fps
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm

The Italians attempted a most powerful blowback cartridge earlier in the 9mm Glisenti (just a 9mm Para downloaded originally to be used in Glisenti pistols and later early Beretta automatics)."

Warner
 
Update

Well, I'm pretty pleased with Graf's customer service. They agreed to take all of the brass back that I have (I counted about 460 pieces) and credit me for it, minus a (reasonable) 10% restocking fee. So this little mistake on my part is going to cost me about $11, plus whatever it costs me to ship the brass back. Not a big penalty for my lack of knowledge, I think. Thanks for everyone's replies on this.

Warner
 
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