A Challenger Appears: PSA 16" Carbine (vs M1 Carbine). Some photos.

[Snowdog]

I've been wanting an AR style rifle or carbine a while now and finally got around to one. Of course I need a reason to justify the purchase, so I figure why not use it for home defense?

My wife is not really all that good with long guns (right handed, left eye dominant). She's expressed interest in a laser for the M1 carbine that we currently use for home defense, but I really wasn't warm on the idea. On an AR maybe, but not an M1 carbine. So hey, more reason to get an AR!

I ordered a PSA mid-length flat-top upper (MOE edition in FDE) to complete a PSA lower I ordered earlier. In addition, I ordered a picatinny rail that attaches to the bayonet lug and laserlyte low-profile laser. I like using iron sights, so for my use I added a rear sight (UTG I think). Both went on easy enough and seem solid.



My impressions: my M1 carbine and AR 16" carbine are similar in size, but not in weight. In retrospect, I should have opted for a light-weight model AR. I haven't weighed them, but it feels like the AR is several pounds heavier in its current configuration. Nothing that makes wielding awkward though and lends to a very solid feel.

Also, I do like the idea of twice the magazine capacity as well as using a round less likely to drill into a neighbor's house (I hope).




That's a chunky round the M1 fires (the pulled bullet for the M1 is a PPU SP, not the GD). I sense the .223 vmax will break up sooner in building materials.


Forgive the strange wallpaper: renovations are uncovering interesting decor combination of previous owners.

The laser fortunately isn't too bulky and is easy to activate/deactivate. Time will tell how it holds up over time or if my wife likes it as much as she suspected she would.

Overall, I'm liking the PSA carbine. However, it will take some time and proficiency before it replaces the M1 Carbine for home defense (if ever). The M1 carbine feels far handier.
But in the end, I'm glad I finally got my AR. Probably going to be my last firearm purchase in a while, considering the economy (and lack of any disposable income).

Now I just need to shoot it.

 

[henschman]

Yeah, the M1 carbine will weigh a little less, but it is basically a pistol caliber carbine. It is to be expected. The AR will be much more ballistically effective on bad guys, putting a lot more ft./lbs. of energy on target, and as you said, will penetrate quite a bit less than the .30 cal pill. With a little training and practice, you will be fine with the AR in a close quarters situation.

 

[RCArms.com]

If you ever are forced to discharge either rifle in a confined space, you will definitely notice a difference.

I would select the M1 Carbine for HD over an AR every time.

Easier to manipulate, easier to hold and hold ON to under stressful situations, 15-rd magazine (more than enough for multiple engagements), minimal recoil, minimal muzzle blast, and IMHO a better round at HD ranges than a 5.56mm high velocity rifle round.

Jim Cirillo from NYPD Stakeout Squad once said that the only weapon that stopped every criminal in his tracks with one shot was the M1 Carbine. Loaded with soft-point ammo, it was like an auto-loading .357 Magnum.

 

[madcratebuilder]

A few things that well take the weigh toff the AR is a 20 rd mag and a ACE Ultra Lite stock set.

I did the SBR route and have a 10.5" barrel. This is very KISS, very light and reliable.

 

[RCArms.com]

A few things that well take the weigh toff the AR is a 20 rd mag and a ACE Ultra Lite stock set.

I did the SBR route and have a 10.5" barrel. This is very KISS, very light and reliable.

I also have a 10.5" tube on one of my SBR uppers. There is NO WAY that I would consider that weapon for a HD choice unless I absolutely had no other options. While I like it as a range weapon and a casual field plinker, it is IMHO a poor choice for a HD weapon unless equipped with a suppressor.

Firing that rifle in an enclosed space without hearing protection would result in immediate and irrepariable hearing damage.

The US Surgeon General successfully had the XM-177 Short Barreled Carbine withdrawn from military service because of the large number of hearing damage complaints resulting from the combat usage of that weapon in Vietnam.

 

[nathan]

snowdog, is the PSA upper you have the one with the heavy Chrome Moly Vanadium barrel? Or the hammer forged 16 inch?


http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...to-state-armory-16-mid-length-mp-upper-1.html

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Still, if you're going the SBR route, it would be neat to get a supressor for it as well. That would make pretty neat HD rifle. Light, short, quiet, and devastating.

 

[Snowdog]

Nathan, the upper I ordered is described as being hammer forged. Below are some of the "features":

Barrel length 16"
Hammer Forged Barrel
Machine Gun Steel
5.56 Nato Chamber
1 in 7" twist
Double-thick Chrome-lined bore and chamber
A2 profile
M4 feedramps
Forged upper
T-marks
Full auto bolt carrier
Carpenter 158 Bolt
Magnetic particle inspected bolt


The barrel is described on PSA's website as: A proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons.

I'm aware that there were some speculations whether their barrels were actually made by FN or instead made "like" FN barrels. I never discovered the consensus, but it does seem quality all the way around.

 

[1KPerDay]

I always like seeing that thing.

 

[1KPerDay]

IMO the M1 carbine is much more friendly to your wife's situation. I'm also left-eye dominant and right handed. Stock ARs are not particularly lefty friendly. left side safety, left side charging handle, right side mag release, left side bolt release.

A right hander shooting an M1 Carbine lefty can easily manipulate the bolt with the right hand while controlling the rifle with the left hand on the grip.

And you do realize they make 30 round mags for the M1 Carbine, right?

Cool PSA though.

 

[Snowdog]

Thanks. I'm aware of the 30 round mags, but there are three reasons that I haven't gone that route.

First, I've shied away after hearing of them being less reliable than the 15 round mags. I lack any first-hand experience with the 30 round mags to support this, however.

I'd imagine they'd also come at the cost maneuverability/handiness (though the same can be said for the 30 round mags on the AR).

I'm also not certain my M1 carbine is compatible as it has a flat WW2 style bolt and push button safety. It's a commercial Kahr Arms/AO and I hope they would have upgraded the magazine catch to allow for the heavier M2 30-round mags, but I have yet to confirm the catch it has.

Overall, I really think 15 rounds is plenty for HD. In our house, we've established a "safe zone" for the family and essentially a "kill zone" (a hallway) that's the only access to the safe zone.
Anyone ne'er-do-well advancing towards the safe zone must funnel into a longish hallway.

Unfortunately, that hallway also is in the direction of a neighbor's house about 40 yards away. On the bright side, my wife throws pots and I've placed many of her pottery in a display at the end of that hallway. My hopes are that any slug that may continue on in that direction will break up substantially after shattering her earthenware, ceramics and such. That's my hope, anyway. I think the pottery poses less a challenge to the .30 carbine (which of course is not a good thing, in my case).

I still have to put the PSA through its paces before ever allowing it to usurp the M1 Carbine in its current role. However, it certainly has that potential.

 

[1KPerDay]

Fair enough. You might also consider noise, recoil, and weight. Not to mention ease of use... clearing a malfunction is pretty straightforward on the carbine.

FWIW my korean 30 round mags have been 100%... even more reliable than my GI 15 rounders. (only one of which has not been 100%).

I like ARs and I like M1 carbines. But for a wife/youth/inexperienced/infrequent shooter, I'd go carbine every time.

I'm curious where you're getting your penetration info. I'd like to review it just out of curiosity.

 

[tomrkba]

Install an ambi-safety and you're done. I use BAD-ASS Safeties since they're fully configurable. I put the short one on the left side and a regular switch on the right side.

The left hand runs the left side of the gun and the right side runs the right side of the gun. It's easier to remember under stress. I am transitioning to this model. I used to just tap the paddle with my right hand after inserting a magazine, but there is some sense in acquiring a grip on the forearm first. You'll have to experiment (as in 1,000 reloads, not 10) to see what works best for you.

http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/badass.php

I like ARs and I like M1 carbines. But for a wife/youth/inexperienced/infrequent shooter, I'd go carbine every time.

Wife needs training like everyone else. At the very least she needs to know how to handle the police so she doesn't talk herself into a conviction.

 

[1KPerDay]

for sure

 

[JShirley]

snowdog,

I like the M1 carbine a lot, but you are correct, even PSP .30 Carbine penetrates like the dickens in material. I cannot agree with RCArms at all, in this instance. Any rifle round fired indoors without ear pro and/or a sound suppressor will result in hearing damage. The advantages of much greater effect on a threat, and much less risk of overpenetration outweigh the disadvantages.

Properly selected .223/5.56x45mm ammunition is definitely the way to go. I suppose it might be possible to handload a very fragile expanding .308 round for the M1 carbine, but you'd definitely have to do some homework. There are many suitable .223 rounds.

madcratebuilder's little rifle is neat, but I would have gone the distance and had an integrally suppressed barrel put on it.

John

 

[nathan]

snowdog

Is the barrel under the MOE handguards thinner vs the diameter of the front past the gas block ? I like it all the same thickness like the heavy barrel but unfortunately they are out.


http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/gallery/id/2339/image/1773/

 

[SwissArmyDad]

My psa is a carbon copy of yours.

That and my 9mm Springfield armory pistol are my "everything guns"

range, HD, gun games, desert shooting, etc, etc.

I like guns with cheap, quality ammo available in large quantities.

 

[Snowdog]

Nathan, the barrel is noticeably thinner under the hand guards. Thankfully too because it's heavy enough.

SwissArmyDad, these are nice looking carbines I must say. There's nothing on my PSA that doesn't look quality.

I'm actually in the process of heavily culling the herd. I'm probably going to shed half my collection before the year is over, mostly milsurp. I guess I just want to streamline my inventory as well.