A few AR15 ammo questions?

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NYH1

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I have a Stag Model 1 (w/Plus Package) AR15, it has the 5.56mm NATO chamber and a 1 in 7 twist 16" barrel, both are chrome lined. My carbine shoots 55 and 62 gr. ammo equally well, with iron sights, I haven't tried an optic yet. I've shot Remington 55 gr. FMJ UMC, PSP Core-Lokt and HP Power Point, Federal AE FMJ and M193 NATO ammo. As well as 62 gr. M855 NATO ammo. I have some Hornady Superformance Match 75 gr. HPBT ammo that I haven't shot yet. I've heard the 1 in 7 twist shoots 55 gr. to 77 gr. ammo well. I haven't tried the heavier ammo yet.

I was wondering what you guys and/or gals are using for Home Defense or even duty patrol ammo in your AR's or other 223/5.56 rifles or carbines, specifically with 1 in 7 twist barrels? I'm looking for a good pointed soft point, hollow point or ballistic tip ammo for home defense ammo. Obviously I'll have to shoot any type of ammo that's recommended to make sure it shoots good and reliable in my carbine. When I had my last AR15 which I sold 4 years ago, Winchester 64 gr. Power Point ammo was recommended by some. How does it compare to other ammo out there today?

Is Prvi Partizan ammo any good? I see it on a bunch of different sites. Is it good enough for practicing with? What other ammo do you use for practice with? I tried steel case Tul Ammo (I think it's called) the other day and broke the rim where the extractor grabs it. Don't know if I'm going to try that again.

Thanks, NYH1.
 
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Being a reloader I've never used factory anything in my life. For in home defense if that should ever happen I use the Ballistic tip 55gr not loaded to full power but at around 2850fps. In a home, one of those, if missing the target can and will go through a wall, house, and more than likely a neighbors house before it stops. If anyone has ever used one of those projectiles if shot into a tree your not exactly digging the thing out in one piece, the thing basically disintegrates on impact.
 
GRUMPA said:
Being a reloader I've never used factory anything in my life. For in home defense if that should ever happen I use the Ballistic tip 55gr not loaded to full power but at around 2850fps. In a home, one of those, if missing the target can and will go through a wall, house, and more than likely a neighbors house before it stops. If anyone has ever used one of those projectiles if shot into a tree your not exactly digging the thing out in one piece, the thing basically disintegrates on impact.
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What do you mean by "one of those"?
 
5.56 has been shown to have less over penetration than your average handgun round. The smaller, lighter bullets tend to fragment quickly when they contact things like bricks, studs and siding. Can it happen? Sure. Are you putting people the next county in danger? No. Box of Truth is a great website that has done tons of testing on sheet rock with various bullet.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
 
ONE OF THOSE means your FMJ type things. I've used many types over the years. Soft points, FMJ, Hollow points. I want a rapid expansion as soon as possible for the really close to home stuff.

To give you an example I live very remote, there's only 1 other house and it's 1/2mi away, after that it's 4mi till the next one. Lots of coyotes here, I hit many with that load from 30' to 100yds and if I wanted to I could gut the things without a knife. Yes the other side opens up that much.

And I read your first post a little closer. I have had to work on more peoples rifles that think they got a real good deal on ammo and bought that cheap metal cased stuff, you know how much that stuff beats the extractor? You know how many I've had to beat the stuck case out of? Try and stay the heck away from metal cased anything.
 
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Love love love 69 g sierra match kings...idk about there home defense use I use them for accuracy but the are loaded in my mags for home defense...I don't see y the wouldn't work...I go to my pistol or shotgun for home defense first anyhow
 
GRUMPA said:
ONE OF THOSE means your FMJ type things. I've used many types over the years. Soft points, FMJ, Hollow points. I want a rapid expansion as soon as possible for the really close to home stuff.
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GRUMPA, I said in my second paragraph-
NYH! said:
I was wondering what you guys and/or gals are using for Home Defense or even duty patrol ammo in your AR's or other 223/5.56 rifles or carbines, specifically with 1 in 7 twist barrels? I'm looking for a good pointed soft point, hollow point or ballistic tip ammo for home defense ammo. Obviously I'll have to shoot any type of ammo that's recommended to make sure it shoots good and reliable in my carbine. When I had my last AR15 which I sold 4 years ago, Winchester 64 gr. Power Point ammo was recommended by some. How does it compare to other ammo out there today?
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I was only listing the ammo that I've shot through my carbine. Never said I was going to use FMJ for Home Defense.

GRUMPA said:
And I read your first post a little closer. I have had to work on more peoples rifles that think they got a real good deal on ammo and bought that cheap metal cased stuff, you know how much that stuff beats the extractor? You know how many I've had to beat the stuck case out of? Try and stay the heck away from metal cased anything.
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Yep, I'm done with the cheap steel case ammo.

NYH1.
 
I've read so many posts in a few forums I just do the skimming thing, my fault. And when I type I sometimes summarize or not make it very specific but more general. Most folk out there use FMJ type stuff without the wisdom of what collateral effect it has.
 
I'm with RC except i'd go with the 60 grain ballistic since twist is a 1:7. Not that it wont stabilize/shoot the other just fine, I just know that my 1:7's do better with stuff around 62-65 grains.
 
No problem GRUMPA. I didn't think that steel case stuff was going to be that bad. The case broke on the 11th round I fired. Actually the first round I fired, my son shot the first 10 rounds. I threw the onther 9 rounds in the ammo/case bin at the range. Never again though.

NYH1.
 
I have a stag 16" carbine with a 5.56 chamber that, when not shooting reloads, shoots almost exclusively steel cased ammo, and after a thousand or two, has yet to have a malfunction with either.


It may not be as accurate as my handloads, but I can't call it junk either...
 
For in home defense if that should ever happen I use the Ballistic tip 55gr not loaded to full power but at around 2850fps
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With .223, penetration often increases as velocity decreases. The reason it penetrates less to begin with is because the small bullet breaks up and the tiny fragments lose momentum quickly. When you reduce the velocity, you reduce the propensity of the round to break up.
 
Ive had good luck with Prvi Partizan. I shoot it in .223, 25-06 and 30-06. One of my 25's particularly likes the 90 grain HP and produces surprising groups considering I get it for $16 a box. Ive noticed it runs fairly hot for factory stuff, especially in the "06" rounds. The 223 variety is great plinking ammo. Also, if you have an Academy in your area i'd recommend Monarch brass 223 for pure plinking. Not supremely accurate but no function problems with it. Around here it runs around $6 a box.
 
PPU is generally pretty good. Their HP ammo should be good for HD as it starts upsetting early but has 12" of penetration.

I'm using varmint loads as I live in a city and my neighbors are very close. I want a round that starts coming apart in the 1st sheetrock wall and am wiling to give up some terminal performance to get that. After all, there are 29 more rounds in the magazine.

BSW
 
Although I haven't tried it because it would break my lease, from studies I've read the 5.56 isn't likely to penetrate much past the sheet rock regardless of speed. And it doesn't matter so much about hollow points (mostly what that's for is better stability) or soft points. What happens is the bullet swaps ends after striking and breaks apart. In order for the hollow or soft point to have much influence it would have to be on the butt end of the bullet. kidding =o) However, the 1 in 7 twist might act against this tendency in that the faster spinning bullet may not be as quick to flip around. This would probably be worth researching to get definite answers.
 
I've shot a LOT of Prvi M193 55gr FMJ. It's not 'match grade' but you can put a dime over 5 rounds at 50 yards, about 2-3" at 100 yards with a good rifle.

I buy it in the plastic 'battle packs' you'll see at Widner's, Palmetto State Armory etc. Usually $60-70 for 200 rds.

I think its on par with Federal's M193 or certainly PMC (which you can sometimes find cheaper).
 
awgrizzly said:
Although I haven't tried it because it would break my lease, from studies I've read the 5.56 isn't likely to penetrate much past the sheet rock regardless of speed.
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OK, that is wrong on a number of levels. First, almost any round from a firearm, including rounds that do not meet the FBI minimum criteria, will penetrate an interior wall composed of two layers of 5/8" sheet rock and still pose a potential lethal threat to someone on the other side of that wall (check out the Terminal Ballistics of .223 thread stickied in the Rifle Forum Reading Library for more detail). .223 poses LESS of a risk than many pistol rounds; but it is still a risk. You shouldn't use .223 with the assumption that it is a nerf bullet that can be stopped by drywall.

Second, as velocity decreases (for example due to a shorter barrel), penetration of .223 increases and the size of the cavity in gel typically decreases. This isn't a guess on my part; but something that is well-documented.

And it doesn't matter so much about hollow points (mostly what that's for is better stability) or soft points. What happens is the bullet swaps ends after striking and breaks apart.
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Spitzer bullets will eventually swap ends and tumble due to their shape, center of gravity, and physics. IF the bullet is travelling fast enough, and IF the jacket is fragile enough, a small, high-velocity round like .223 can break apart from stress when this tumble happens. However, there are a lot of factors involved. In some ammo/barrel length combos, .223 can exit an average human male before the round ever begins to tumble.

The same is not true of soft point or hollow point bullets as their center of gravity changes as the bullet expands. They will typically not tumble if they expand as designed.

In both cases, neither two sheets of drywall nor sheet metal is thick enough to slow down the bullet to the degree that it wants to swap ends. It may take several interior walls before .223 tumbles and if you are using a spitzer shaped bullet, it will still need to break apart when it does tumble - and 5/8" of gypsum powder isn't a real substantial barrier.

However, the 1 in 7 twist might act against this tendency in that the faster spinning bullet may not be as quick to flip around. This would probably be worth researching to get definite answers.
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Again, wrong. The purpose of twist in rifling is to spin stabilize the bullet in AIR. In tissue or a mostly liquid medium, you would need an insane twist to spin stabilize a bullet. The difference between a 1:14 twist and a 1:7 twist on bullet stability in a person is like the difference between being under a 100 ton weight and being under a 100 ton weight with a feather on it. The one with the feather is technically heavier; but you aren't going to notice the difference underneath it.

Here is a good link: http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_twistduh.html

If you read this and the Terminal Ballistics of .223 thread linked above; you'll learn a great deal about .223 ammo and how and why it works (or doesn't work in some situations).
 
i love the prvi m193. shot a ton of it

however, i have tried many other prvi ammo types and have been disappointed in all of them. their "match" stuff in 223 and 308 shot like crap in my rifles.
 
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