45Guy
Member
Sans Authoritas, why do you have to crap on everyone who serves to protect you and your loved ones? Because that's what they're doing, protecting people like you.
A friend of mine is going to attend...
- Thread starter Sato Ord
- Start date
- Status
marksman13
Member
Sato, thank him for his service, but I doubt that he made 83 kills at over a mile. It's just not feasible. I could be wrong. I have been before, but I think this may be some kind of a misunderstanding.
Sans, it must be nice to live in a country where you can bash the warriors who fight for your right to do so. Damn good thing that there are people who are willing to ignore your assinine comments and focus on the handful that appreciate the sacrifices they make.
Sans, it must be nice to live in a country where you can bash the warriors who fight for your right to do so. Damn good thing that there are people who are willing to ignore your assinine comments and focus on the handful that appreciate the sacrifices they make.
Crimp
Member
Me too. I pity a person that has to live with that level of anger. And this thread is the last one in which I'll see a post from him/her. The ignore function works well.
Anyway, I've seen videos of the 50-cal snipers. Excellent stuff! He is to be congratulated.
sacp81170a
Member
Just for the record, I'd be perfectly happy if no one ever shoots at me again.
As far as dehumanizing one's opponents, snipers are known to have the clearest view of those they are killing of almost anyone on the battlefield except for those involved in hand to hand combat. It takes a special breed of men to do the job, and thank God for every one of 'em who's on our side.
By the way, did the guys in all those Al Jazeera videotapes dehumanize the people they were beheading? That sort of gratuitous butchery is exactly what your friend and all our troops are fighting against.
larry_minn
Member
First please tell him"thank you" Second odds are most shots were UNDER a mile but some were over. It really does not matter how far away they were. (except for the fact I likely couldn't have made shots at the shorter end of his shots)
brighamr
Member
Great advice, thanks!
And your friend definitely deserves an award. That takes skill, dedication, and love for his country.
Last edited:
ReadyontheRight
Member
Please extend my thanks for his services.
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
I love the people who bash us but have never been there themselves. SANS is just proving that by posting what he did.
Freakin' armchair quarterbacks!!!
Also, please pass on my respect for his service.
Freakin' armchair quarterbacks!!!
Also, please pass on my respect for his service.
bloodedsky
member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Messages
- 166
Rewarding someone on the specific premise that they killed a lot of people is sick--it is disdainful of the 83 human lives about which WE KNOW NOTHING.
Rewarding someone specifically for saving a group of their fellow soldiers, or something of that nature, is different.
Basically, this is saying, "You killed a bunch of people! How wonderful!" It disregards the fact that killing someone is not a casual act.
I just love how most of you here are Christians, yet you are hurrahing yourself hoarse over this.
Do you think this sort of behaviour is honestly what your religion teaches?
As for those claiming that this is done to "protect citizens like me"--
B*** S***. Our current "jihad" in the Middle East is built on lies.
American society is disgusting. It's funny, really--people all over the world find us to be pompous and callous, as well as lacking in manners. Yet we don't see it. Laughing, people from other countries have told me, "Of course they don't see it. Egomaniacs never see the fact that they are egomaniacs."
I'm not perfect by any means, but I was shocked by the positive reaction on this thread to the act of rewarding someone for killing a lot of people. I thought better of you all than that.
Rewarding someone specifically for saving a group of their fellow soldiers, or something of that nature, is different.
Basically, this is saying, "You killed a bunch of people! How wonderful!" It disregards the fact that killing someone is not a casual act.
I just love how most of you here are Christians, yet you are hurrahing yourself hoarse over this.
Do you think this sort of behaviour is honestly what your religion teaches?
As for those claiming that this is done to "protect citizens like me"--
B*** S***. Our current "jihad" in the Middle East is built on lies.
American society is disgusting. It's funny, really--people all over the world find us to be pompous and callous, as well as lacking in manners. Yet we don't see it. Laughing, people from other countries have told me, "Of course they don't see it. Egomaniacs never see the fact that they are egomaniacs."
I'm not perfect by any means, but I was shocked by the positive reaction on this thread to the act of rewarding someone for killing a lot of people. I thought better of you all than that.
LSCurrier
Member
Bloodedsky,
America is not perfect and neither are Americans, however when you sum everything up America is the best country on earth.
Do you see how great America is? You can have your opinion and the freedom to voice it. How many other countries in this world do you risk reprisal for what you do or say?
I disagree with you on nearly everything you said, but that is my right as it is yours to feel the way you do too.
Luke
America is not perfect and neither are Americans, however when you sum everything up America is the best country on earth.
Do you see how great America is? You can have your opinion and the freedom to voice it. How many other countries in this world do you risk reprisal for what you do or say?
I disagree with you on nearly everything you said, but that is my right as it is yours to feel the way you do too.
Luke
Killermonkey21
Member
Sans-While I understand that people who think like you are...discouraging to me and my adopted brothers and sisters, but to stand back and say those things? I'm sorry, my fellow American, but I prefer to leave that to the Bureaucrats.
Bureaucrats got this war started, and thats on them, not me and my family. We volunteered to defend you and yours, so you wouldn't have to.
You can ask any one person why they took the oath. Some will tell you for the college money, job, career, pride in their country, whatever the reason. This Marine has served his country honorably and with distinction. I don't have much else to say to you.
To anyone who has ANY doubt about what it is to serve over here in this rathole, trying to follow orders and do good things, and come back home...go down to your local VFW and talk with some of those guys.
My Uncle, drafted in 'Nam, my father said he was never the same.
My fiance, her cousin lost his arm to an IED in October 05. Ask him what it means to him.
Ask my roomate, who's been hit with IED's, and sent some back at the enemy to protect himself and his brethren.
Talk to ME and see what its like to live with yourself after taking human life.
These people over here put their lives on the line to FOLLOW ORDERS. So that you can sit at home and criticize us. Blame the politicians, not the soldier.
You can support the troops without supporting the war. Until you can do that, you don't have my respect. You have my love and my service, but not my respect.
To all those who serve, past, present, and future...thank you.
Have a good day, Gentleman. May God bless you and keep you.
-PFC John V.
Bureaucrats got this war started, and thats on them, not me and my family. We volunteered to defend you and yours, so you wouldn't have to.
You can ask any one person why they took the oath. Some will tell you for the college money, job, career, pride in their country, whatever the reason. This Marine has served his country honorably and with distinction. I don't have much else to say to you.
To anyone who has ANY doubt about what it is to serve over here in this rathole, trying to follow orders and do good things, and come back home...go down to your local VFW and talk with some of those guys.
My Uncle, drafted in 'Nam, my father said he was never the same.
My fiance, her cousin lost his arm to an IED in October 05. Ask him what it means to him.
Ask my roomate, who's been hit with IED's, and sent some back at the enemy to protect himself and his brethren.
Talk to ME and see what its like to live with yourself after taking human life.
These people over here put their lives on the line to FOLLOW ORDERS. So that you can sit at home and criticize us. Blame the politicians, not the soldier.
You can support the troops without supporting the war. Until you can do that, you don't have my respect. You have my love and my service, but not my respect.
To all those who serve, past, present, and future...thank you.
Have a good day, Gentleman. May God bless you and keep you.
-PFC John V.
209
Member
Have your friend tell him "Semper Fi- thanks for job well-done."
I guess I'll be one of those people who sicken others for commending a Marine for doing his job well. I'll accept that.
Nobody's_Hero
Member
gretmd said:
True that. Try loading a burn patient into a meat-wagon and thinking of them as anything other than "crispy critters." It gets to you, after a while, thinking of them as someone's son or daughter.
Often you have to formulate your own reality in order to survive an even more absurd and unforgiving one.
Sans Authoritas
member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,126
I posted another message that covers why your "fighting to protect my rights" is nationalist nonsense. Here it is again.
------ wrote:
Excellent, ------. "I was there." So what you're saying is that you know what is happening and who is pulling the strings of the occupation because you were standing 3'' in front of a bull elephant, and because you're so close to the elephant, of course it seems like a dire threat. To anyone who's in its territory. And you want the rest of us to believe that the U.S. government's efforts will have any effect whatsoever in preventing a determined elephant from traversing 6,000 miles of air/ocean, and killing a couple thousand civilians.
I guess we're all a bunch of chuckleheads, for "believing what the media tells us." I don't know that the media is usually to blame. Just the people who control and abuse it. The media told us that Santa Anna unwarrantedly attacked U.S. troops in Tejas. (It didn't tell us that the U.S. government offered to reinstall Santa Anna, and to give him a handsome sum to be its own puppet dictator.) The media told us that "Lincoln and the Army of the Lord was marchin' down to free the slaves, alleluia," and not going to war to secure taxes from those who dared believe in the Constitution of 1792. To force a "Union" made at gunpoint.
The media told us that the Spanish were continuing to commit atrocities in Cuba, and that those dastardly Spanish blew up the U.S. Battleship Maine. (Remember the Maine!) The media told us that the baby-butchering, maiden-ravishing bloody-handed Huns were ravaging Belgium, and didn't tell us that in addition to civilians, the Lusitania was actually carrying ammunition to the British.
The media told us that Communists burned down the Reichstag.
The media told us that the U.S. was taken completely off guard on December 7th, 1941. The media failed to mention that the Dutch and Americans had broken the Japanese code. The media failed to mention that since 1933, every final exam in the Imperial Naval Academy included the question, "How would you execute a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor?" I have in my possession a letter written by a paratrooper's father, dated December 8th, stating, "We knew it was only a matter of time," then going on to state all the reasons they knew the attack was coming. (Empires don't like competition from other Empires.) The media told us that slaughering scores of thousands of Japanese women and children was "necessary." The media fails to note that MacArthur, Nimitz and Halsey all said it was a crock: that Japan was totally militarily defeated, and air and ocean superiority had been attained. Isn't war supposed to be a macrocosm of the principle of self-defense? Neutralize the threat, period? No... war is about glory for those who love it. (And for those who profit by it.)
The media told us that American warships were attacked by torpedo boats at the Tonkin Gulf.
The media told us that "Nayirah," an alleged nurse at Kuwait City hospital, testified before the Senate, weeping, while describing how those horrible Iraqis had tossed dozens of babies out of their incubators onto the cold floor. They failed to mention (except for NBC) that "Nayirah" was actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the U.S., and that she never worked at the hospital, was not near Kuwait when the Iraqis invaded, and that the entire event never happened to begin with. And now, the U.S. was "forced" to go to war with a country that was just about to use nuclear weapons against its neighbors and the U.S. The media relayed (from Bush) that... "The smoking gun could come in the form of a mushroom cloud," but that occupying a country the size of Tejas, filled with even 15% of a population that hates the foreign intruders' guts, is going to prevent terrorists from coming over here. Yes. That's how you get people to not commit terrorism. Kill everyone who could be a terrorist.
You say you support torture, which, according to George Washington in the Revolutionary War, would have rightfully gotten you court-martialled and executed. Do you think morality and human nature has somehow changed, sir? Would you be all right with American soldiers being tortured, because, "Hell, it's war?" Torture is the attempt to coerce the God-given free will of another human being. Even GOD himself refuses to coerce the free will with which he has endowed us. Who do you think you are, sir?
------ Wrote:
Spare us the bravado. You didn't fight for the freedoms of Americans. Your being in Iraq did not make America any safer. The U.S. government can't even control who wanders across the Canadian and Mexican borders, yet you think that occupying a country that already isn't the number 1 fan of the the U.S. government is going to keep Americans safe? You, sir, are living in a nationalistic, testosterone-fueled dreamworld. I love my country. That means I love my neighbors and the land on which they live. I have zero respect for the foreign policies of the Federal government. If that makes me a "traitor" and "limp-wristed pinko," so be it. In addition to being a liberal pinko, I am 100% pro life from conception to a natural death. I also believe that being a mother is the most important job on the face of the earth, bar none. And that no man should ask another man for permission to defend his own life, or those of his family with the best means in existence, including owning fully-auto M240G's, M1A1 Abrams, and RPG's. I believe that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought to free the slaves, but to make sure ALL men labored for the same Master. I believe that if you have a right to any of my money, you should come take it by violence yourself, and not be a coward and vote for someone to take it by proxy. I used to be a strict constructionist, too, before I realized that no tiger can be kept small, or in a cage of parchment and ink.
Terrorism happens. Terrorism happens because people hold ideals above the innocent lives of other people. You can fight terrorists in one of two ways: kill everyone who could possibly ever be a terrorist (and good luck with that one.) Or you can alter the circumstances behind why they hate other people. If you think that terrorists hate the U.S. government because its citizens are "Free," you're insane. Period. If this were the case, they would have attacked Canada, the Netherlands and Switzerland LONG before they ever touched the United States.
Yes. Terrorists are out there. Ooh, scary. Please, government, issue me a nice, safe, bomb-proof, gas-proof, terrorist-proof Lexan hamster ball to roll around in. Americans are more likely to die from bee stings, lightning strikes and shark attacks, and being grossly overweight, than be killed in a terrorist attack. That is despite the fact that the U.S. military is in over 190 countries across the world, not because of it.
Yes, terrorists are out there. So are flies that bite. You can spend your life wringing your hands about flies, and try to hunt every one down until you are exhausted and have no money left, or you can live your life and swat the flies whenever they manifest themselves. Terrorized? Not me. As a friend of mine says, terror is the reaction of those who have forgotten God, and try to make this life on earth their heaven. Again, if you've forgotten God, good luck with trying to make earth peaceful at the point of a gun. It's like trying to grab a fistful of water. It will perennially escape you.
-Sans Authoritas
------ wrote:
Excellent, ------. "I was there." So what you're saying is that you know what is happening and who is pulling the strings of the occupation because you were standing 3'' in front of a bull elephant, and because you're so close to the elephant, of course it seems like a dire threat. To anyone who's in its territory. And you want the rest of us to believe that the U.S. government's efforts will have any effect whatsoever in preventing a determined elephant from traversing 6,000 miles of air/ocean, and killing a couple thousand civilians.
I guess we're all a bunch of chuckleheads, for "believing what the media tells us." I don't know that the media is usually to blame. Just the people who control and abuse it. The media told us that Santa Anna unwarrantedly attacked U.S. troops in Tejas. (It didn't tell us that the U.S. government offered to reinstall Santa Anna, and to give him a handsome sum to be its own puppet dictator.) The media told us that "Lincoln and the Army of the Lord was marchin' down to free the slaves, alleluia," and not going to war to secure taxes from those who dared believe in the Constitution of 1792. To force a "Union" made at gunpoint.
The media told us that the Spanish were continuing to commit atrocities in Cuba, and that those dastardly Spanish blew up the U.S. Battleship Maine. (Remember the Maine!) The media told us that the baby-butchering, maiden-ravishing bloody-handed Huns were ravaging Belgium, and didn't tell us that in addition to civilians, the Lusitania was actually carrying ammunition to the British.
The media told us that Communists burned down the Reichstag.
The media told us that the U.S. was taken completely off guard on December 7th, 1941. The media failed to mention that the Dutch and Americans had broken the Japanese code. The media failed to mention that since 1933, every final exam in the Imperial Naval Academy included the question, "How would you execute a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor?" I have in my possession a letter written by a paratrooper's father, dated December 8th, stating, "We knew it was only a matter of time," then going on to state all the reasons they knew the attack was coming. (Empires don't like competition from other Empires.) The media told us that slaughering scores of thousands of Japanese women and children was "necessary." The media fails to note that MacArthur, Nimitz and Halsey all said it was a crock: that Japan was totally militarily defeated, and air and ocean superiority had been attained. Isn't war supposed to be a macrocosm of the principle of self-defense? Neutralize the threat, period? No... war is about glory for those who love it. (And for those who profit by it.)
The media told us that American warships were attacked by torpedo boats at the Tonkin Gulf.
The media told us that "Nayirah," an alleged nurse at Kuwait City hospital, testified before the Senate, weeping, while describing how those horrible Iraqis had tossed dozens of babies out of their incubators onto the cold floor. They failed to mention (except for NBC) that "Nayirah" was actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the U.S., and that she never worked at the hospital, was not near Kuwait when the Iraqis invaded, and that the entire event never happened to begin with. And now, the U.S. was "forced" to go to war with a country that was just about to use nuclear weapons against its neighbors and the U.S. The media relayed (from Bush) that... "The smoking gun could come in the form of a mushroom cloud," but that occupying a country the size of Tejas, filled with even 15% of a population that hates the foreign intruders' guts, is going to prevent terrorists from coming over here. Yes. That's how you get people to not commit terrorism. Kill everyone who could be a terrorist.
You say you support torture, which, according to George Washington in the Revolutionary War, would have rightfully gotten you court-martialled and executed. Do you think morality and human nature has somehow changed, sir? Would you be all right with American soldiers being tortured, because, "Hell, it's war?" Torture is the attempt to coerce the God-given free will of another human being. Even GOD himself refuses to coerce the free will with which he has endowed us. Who do you think you are, sir?
------ Wrote:
Spare us the bravado. You didn't fight for the freedoms of Americans. Your being in Iraq did not make America any safer. The U.S. government can't even control who wanders across the Canadian and Mexican borders, yet you think that occupying a country that already isn't the number 1 fan of the the U.S. government is going to keep Americans safe? You, sir, are living in a nationalistic, testosterone-fueled dreamworld. I love my country. That means I love my neighbors and the land on which they live. I have zero respect for the foreign policies of the Federal government. If that makes me a "traitor" and "limp-wristed pinko," so be it. In addition to being a liberal pinko, I am 100% pro life from conception to a natural death. I also believe that being a mother is the most important job on the face of the earth, bar none. And that no man should ask another man for permission to defend his own life, or those of his family with the best means in existence, including owning fully-auto M240G's, M1A1 Abrams, and RPG's. I believe that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought to free the slaves, but to make sure ALL men labored for the same Master. I believe that if you have a right to any of my money, you should come take it by violence yourself, and not be a coward and vote for someone to take it by proxy. I used to be a strict constructionist, too, before I realized that no tiger can be kept small, or in a cage of parchment and ink.
Terrorism happens. Terrorism happens because people hold ideals above the innocent lives of other people. You can fight terrorists in one of two ways: kill everyone who could possibly ever be a terrorist (and good luck with that one.) Or you can alter the circumstances behind why they hate other people. If you think that terrorists hate the U.S. government because its citizens are "Free," you're insane. Period. If this were the case, they would have attacked Canada, the Netherlands and Switzerland LONG before they ever touched the United States.
Yes. Terrorists are out there. Ooh, scary. Please, government, issue me a nice, safe, bomb-proof, gas-proof, terrorist-proof Lexan hamster ball to roll around in. Americans are more likely to die from bee stings, lightning strikes and shark attacks, and being grossly overweight, than be killed in a terrorist attack. That is despite the fact that the U.S. military is in over 190 countries across the world, not because of it.
Yes, terrorists are out there. So are flies that bite. You can spend your life wringing your hands about flies, and try to hunt every one down until you are exhausted and have no money left, or you can live your life and swat the flies whenever they manifest themselves. Terrorized? Not me. As a friend of mine says, terror is the reaction of those who have forgotten God, and try to make this life on earth their heaven. Again, if you've forgotten God, good luck with trying to make earth peaceful at the point of a gun. It's like trying to grab a fistful of water. It will perennially escape you.
-Sans Authoritas
Sans- Who protects this right? I agree that our troops have been mishandled and the war even if you are for it has been conducted stupidly
However, Armed forces are necessary and they go where they are told. Thats the only way it works. It is the voters job to decide to end war or continue it.(the politicians start it) With that killing people is war and this war has been light on deaths(even on the Iraqi side) compared to some other wars fought this century.
I'm still waiting on your list of civilizations that lasted without a standing military
bloodedsky
member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Messages
- 166
So few of the people on THR are capable of original thought. In fact, many of the things posted here by the conservatives eerily mirror the BS rhetoric spewed by the most corrupt administration in history.
I don't care what any of you say. Each of those 83 people was somebody's son. We don't know if any of them were good or if any of them were evil. So it makes no sense to commend someone expressly for their murder.
I don't feel any safer, knowing that a lot of arrogant people are out there "defending" me. In fact, I feel more worried, because if the Middle East disliked us before all of this--well, it HATES us now.
You volunteered for combat. The people you kill did not.
I don't care what any of you say. Each of those 83 people was somebody's son. We don't know if any of them were good or if any of them were evil. So it makes no sense to commend someone expressly for their murder.
I don't feel any safer, knowing that a lot of arrogant people are out there "defending" me. In fact, I feel more worried, because if the Middle East disliked us before all of this--well, it HATES us now.
You volunteered for combat. The people you kill did not.
Sans Authoritas
member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,126
Certainly not the Federal government, which has been proven to be the worst enemy of the right to keep and bear arms. This is the same Federal government that chooses where to send troops, and for what "reasons."
The right is always there, protected, exercised, or not. Whether anyone recognizes your right is immaterial to the existence of your right.
-Sans Authoritas
Nobody's_Hero
Member
I'm not sure there is time nor safe refuge to ponder the concept of good and evil on the field of battle. I think the contemplation of such matters is instead simplified to the form of "outgoing" and "incoming."
If I may be allowed to quote Jack Handy, of SNL:
“If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.”
I don't believe I could celebrate taking the lives of 83 men, but, then again, I do not have the mind of a warrior. I am still dissecting the minds of politicians that I may help protect the warrior. I like to destroy weeds at their roots, and if there are those among you wanting to be angry (some frustrations I share as well), be angry at the politicians. Spare the soldier.
BlackBearME
Member
That's an interesting assertion. How do you know that?bloodedsky said:
Sato indicated that many of the targets were spotters, reporting on friendly (to us) positions. That sounds like someone who understands the risks. It's a war. People die.
I have a question for you. Take the scenario: there's spotters calling in positions (for bombs, ground assaults, whatever.) If you object to snipers making them targets, I'm curious what your solution would be. Since we know where they are, and killing them would apparently be wrong, would you propose we walk up to them and kindly ask them to go back to base?
I for one support our troops, especially the snipers.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Sato Ord,
Please open another thread on this topic after you hear back from your friend with some more details, maybe some pictures or newspaper stories for the naysayers. Those things do appear pretty often, maybe in the base newspaper or as a press release from the Public Information Officer/Public Affairs Officer, but often enough the public events are in the news.
I'm just not comfortable with the tone this discussion has taken and I'm turning it off before it veers any further, to the point where the staff has to do worse than close the thread.
lpl/nc
Please open another thread on this topic after you hear back from your friend with some more details, maybe some pictures or newspaper stories for the naysayers. Those things do appear pretty often, maybe in the base newspaper or as a press release from the Public Information Officer/Public Affairs Officer, but often enough the public events are in the news.
I'm just not comfortable with the tone this discussion has taken and I'm turning it off before it veers any further, to the point where the staff has to do worse than close the thread.
lpl/nc
- Status