270Win
Member
This is a general report to inform everyone of some price and availability information, both general and regional (DC/MD/VA/PA). 8/10/07
Yesterday I went to the Silverado gun show in Frederick, MD ... I was there when it opened at 9 am. This was the first show I'd attended in a few months, probably since early summer; I had a few vague things I was looking for, but wasn't intending to buy anything.
I was mostly searching for milsurps - specifically a Steyr M95, a SMLE, a good K98, a good Finn M39, etc. Basically anything other than what I already have
Well, the milsurp part of the show was both better and worse than before - there was some new stuff to be seen, but prices seemed higher than usual. Whereas the average Mosin 91/30 used to be an even $100 (what my dad paid for his last year), it's now more like $120-140. One semi-outrageous dealer (to be discussed later) was charging $280 or so. Sniper repros were $375 just about everywhere. M44s were anywhere from $75 (beat up, rusty) to $140 (excellent condition). No M38s in sight - one dealer even told me "Oh, those are all gone now."
I saw absolutely no Enfields of any kind, but M1 Carbines were everywhere, generally from $575 for a best-up example to $800 and up for a good one.
I saw exactly one German Mauser and it was sporterized - not was I was looking for. I did, however, see an Argentine Mauser ($285), a beautiful Swedish Mauser ($400), and a few others (Yugo, Turkish, Czech, etc.). Slightly higher than I wanted to pay, and those were cash-only prices, which I didn't have on me.
The only Steyr M95 was from the aforementioned semi-outrageous dealer, and was above $300.
SKSs are still in short supply, but prices have become reasonable again. I saw a very good condition Yugo 59/66 for $170 and a Chinese paratrooper (so light!) for $220. No more sky-high prices for SKSs, it seems.
M1 Garands were almost all $1200 and up. I didn't scrutinize them very closely, so I can't report on general level of quality.
Swiss K31s were almost impossible to find - only one at the entire show, and $380 for it. At this point I should talk about this dealer I saw:
The table only held about 10 rifles, all military surplus. All had been refinished - all the stocks looked sanded and oiled. I assume the dealer had done it, because the level of finish was uniform across the entire stock. All the rifles had been detailed - no little hidden pieces of grime to be found. In short, they were exceptionally clean. Each rifle also had two laminated tags hanging from the barrel. One was a miniature target showing what this particular rifle was capable of - not all were impressive - and the other stating the make/model/etc. and price. Ahhh... the prices. They were at LEAST three times higher than everywhere else. I was shocked to see a standard Mosin, round receiver, 1941 Ishevsk, non-sniper selling for $280. The K31 for $380. The M95 for $300+ Etc.
So it seems the dealer was selling cleaned up, refinished milsurps at what I considered an outrageous premium. The example targets on the tags seemed to indicate these were run-of-the-mill shooters, too; the price wasn't for some extreme level of accuracy. I'd never seen this kind of milsurp dealer before - all the others left the years of grime caked on, left the price as low as the dirt in the barrel, and let the buyer enjoy the process of evaluating the rifle.
Outside the milsurp world, I was also looking for a good price on a case of the Wolf Military Classic 7.62x39 - not to be found. However, regular black-box Wolf x39 was $180 a case - about average, I thought. Best price on x39 at the show was for the Golden Tiger, which was $160 a case.
No more surplus 7.62x54R to be found, at least at this show. I saw absolutely none of my favorite metal tins, either green or grey or black. The only x54R to be found was Bernaul or Wolf Gold.
Wolf Gold 7.5 Swiss was $16 per box of 20 ... higher than before, when it was $12 and then $14. Growing scarce? Or just high demand from reloaders? I wasn't sure.
.223 Rem ammo was back, saw some Igman and all the commercial brands, at about $12 per 20. My memory is hazy on this one, so don't take that as gospel - I wasn't searching it out, so I was only half paying attention.
.308 Win was nowhere to be found except in small, overpriced small lots.
Handgun ammo: 9mm (Parabellum) was about $10 per 50 for most brands (MagTech, Winchester, etc.) and $7.50 per 50 for the Wolf steel-cased stuff.
.45 ACP was $10 per 50 if you looked high and low (MFS brand - Hungarian manufacture I was told?), and it was selling fast. Average was $14 per 50 or so for the "regular" brands.
Rimfire: Surprisingly few choices this time around. I saw some Eley Sport, but otherwise the choices were few and far between. There used to be a very wide selection of .22 LR ammo at these shows, but not anymore.
General trends: A lot more sellers of ARs and AKs. I saw a Galil or two for the first time at these shows. Also more sellers of AR parts - uppers, lowers, triggers, misc parts, optics, you name it. Seemed to be a hot-ticket item.
Fewer affordable shotguns - you used to be able to get a plain-Jane Remington 870 for a few hairs over $200 - but all I saw this time were fancy Berettas, Benellis, etc. etc. Very few low-level shotguns to be found.
Handgun prices: all I was really checking out were CZs (my favorite). Price on the standard blued CZ-75: about $450. Price for the stainless finish: $540. Couldn't find any single-action-only models, which I was looking for.
Pre-owned Sigs seemed very hot, a lot of people were handling them with serious "I like this a lot" looks on their faces.
In the two hours I was there, Glocks seemed less popular than before, but I'm sure that changes hour-to-hour as people come and go from the show.
Interestingly, the BATFE had their own booth. I didn't actually stop and investigate, but it was fascinating to see them advertising their presence. I suspect they were recruiting, which was probably a good thing - gun lovers working for the ATF can't be bad, right?
The Howa table was there as always, and as always I was impressed with their thumbhole .308 models. In fact, all their rifles had very smooth actions - seemed very well made.
Last thoughts: I was disappointed to see a general reduction in the scope of the show this time around. There were a few specific dealers I was hoping to see that were absent; I especially missed The Gun Merchant, from Federalsburg MD. The gentleman and his wife that run the store sell almost nothing but rarish milsurps for prices generally on the high side of fair, but perhaps bargainable if you have cash. I've seen all-original non-rearsenaled 1930 and 1931 Mosins in great shape for $180 (should've bought one!) ... Mausers with all crests intact in great shape in the low $200s ... Arisakas with the mum and in good shape in the mid-to-high $200s ... etc. I bought my first K31 and my M38 from them, and both turned out to be exceptional shooters. Their presence was sorely missed.
Finally, the best rifle I saw at the show was a Finn M39 with absolutely beautiful smoky wood but almost no blueing left - maybe 5-10% blueing. Was marked "SA" and "VKT" - for $250. I'm still kicking myself ... but I didn't have the cash, and probably don't have the budget either. I would have been severely chastised by the wife had I brought that lovely rifle home... but I noticed as soon as I put the rifle back on the rack, another gentleman made a beeline for it, so I'm hoping it found a good home.
Yesterday I went to the Silverado gun show in Frederick, MD ... I was there when it opened at 9 am. This was the first show I'd attended in a few months, probably since early summer; I had a few vague things I was looking for, but wasn't intending to buy anything.
I was mostly searching for milsurps - specifically a Steyr M95, a SMLE, a good K98, a good Finn M39, etc. Basically anything other than what I already have
Well, the milsurp part of the show was both better and worse than before - there was some new stuff to be seen, but prices seemed higher than usual. Whereas the average Mosin 91/30 used to be an even $100 (what my dad paid for his last year), it's now more like $120-140. One semi-outrageous dealer (to be discussed later) was charging $280 or so. Sniper repros were $375 just about everywhere. M44s were anywhere from $75 (beat up, rusty) to $140 (excellent condition). No M38s in sight - one dealer even told me "Oh, those are all gone now."
I saw absolutely no Enfields of any kind, but M1 Carbines were everywhere, generally from $575 for a best-up example to $800 and up for a good one.
I saw exactly one German Mauser and it was sporterized - not was I was looking for. I did, however, see an Argentine Mauser ($285), a beautiful Swedish Mauser ($400), and a few others (Yugo, Turkish, Czech, etc.). Slightly higher than I wanted to pay, and those were cash-only prices, which I didn't have on me.
The only Steyr M95 was from the aforementioned semi-outrageous dealer, and was above $300.
SKSs are still in short supply, but prices have become reasonable again. I saw a very good condition Yugo 59/66 for $170 and a Chinese paratrooper (so light!) for $220. No more sky-high prices for SKSs, it seems.
M1 Garands were almost all $1200 and up. I didn't scrutinize them very closely, so I can't report on general level of quality.
Swiss K31s were almost impossible to find - only one at the entire show, and $380 for it. At this point I should talk about this dealer I saw:
The table only held about 10 rifles, all military surplus. All had been refinished - all the stocks looked sanded and oiled. I assume the dealer had done it, because the level of finish was uniform across the entire stock. All the rifles had been detailed - no little hidden pieces of grime to be found. In short, they were exceptionally clean. Each rifle also had two laminated tags hanging from the barrel. One was a miniature target showing what this particular rifle was capable of - not all were impressive - and the other stating the make/model/etc. and price. Ahhh... the prices. They were at LEAST three times higher than everywhere else. I was shocked to see a standard Mosin, round receiver, 1941 Ishevsk, non-sniper selling for $280. The K31 for $380. The M95 for $300+ Etc.
So it seems the dealer was selling cleaned up, refinished milsurps at what I considered an outrageous premium. The example targets on the tags seemed to indicate these were run-of-the-mill shooters, too; the price wasn't for some extreme level of accuracy. I'd never seen this kind of milsurp dealer before - all the others left the years of grime caked on, left the price as low as the dirt in the barrel, and let the buyer enjoy the process of evaluating the rifle.
Outside the milsurp world, I was also looking for a good price on a case of the Wolf Military Classic 7.62x39 - not to be found. However, regular black-box Wolf x39 was $180 a case - about average, I thought. Best price on x39 at the show was for the Golden Tiger, which was $160 a case.
No more surplus 7.62x54R to be found, at least at this show. I saw absolutely none of my favorite metal tins, either green or grey or black. The only x54R to be found was Bernaul or Wolf Gold.
Wolf Gold 7.5 Swiss was $16 per box of 20 ... higher than before, when it was $12 and then $14. Growing scarce? Or just high demand from reloaders? I wasn't sure.
.223 Rem ammo was back, saw some Igman and all the commercial brands, at about $12 per 20. My memory is hazy on this one, so don't take that as gospel - I wasn't searching it out, so I was only half paying attention.
.308 Win was nowhere to be found except in small, overpriced small lots.
Handgun ammo: 9mm (Parabellum) was about $10 per 50 for most brands (MagTech, Winchester, etc.) and $7.50 per 50 for the Wolf steel-cased stuff.
.45 ACP was $10 per 50 if you looked high and low (MFS brand - Hungarian manufacture I was told?), and it was selling fast. Average was $14 per 50 or so for the "regular" brands.
Rimfire: Surprisingly few choices this time around. I saw some Eley Sport, but otherwise the choices were few and far between. There used to be a very wide selection of .22 LR ammo at these shows, but not anymore.
General trends: A lot more sellers of ARs and AKs. I saw a Galil or two for the first time at these shows. Also more sellers of AR parts - uppers, lowers, triggers, misc parts, optics, you name it. Seemed to be a hot-ticket item.
Fewer affordable shotguns - you used to be able to get a plain-Jane Remington 870 for a few hairs over $200 - but all I saw this time were fancy Berettas, Benellis, etc. etc. Very few low-level shotguns to be found.
Handgun prices: all I was really checking out were CZs (my favorite). Price on the standard blued CZ-75: about $450. Price for the stainless finish: $540. Couldn't find any single-action-only models, which I was looking for.
Pre-owned Sigs seemed very hot, a lot of people were handling them with serious "I like this a lot" looks on their faces.
In the two hours I was there, Glocks seemed less popular than before, but I'm sure that changes hour-to-hour as people come and go from the show.
Interestingly, the BATFE had their own booth. I didn't actually stop and investigate, but it was fascinating to see them advertising their presence. I suspect they were recruiting, which was probably a good thing - gun lovers working for the ATF can't be bad, right?
The Howa table was there as always, and as always I was impressed with their thumbhole .308 models. In fact, all their rifles had very smooth actions - seemed very well made.
Last thoughts: I was disappointed to see a general reduction in the scope of the show this time around. There were a few specific dealers I was hoping to see that were absent; I especially missed The Gun Merchant, from Federalsburg MD. The gentleman and his wife that run the store sell almost nothing but rarish milsurps for prices generally on the high side of fair, but perhaps bargainable if you have cash. I've seen all-original non-rearsenaled 1930 and 1931 Mosins in great shape for $180 (should've bought one!) ... Mausers with all crests intact in great shape in the low $200s ... Arisakas with the mum and in good shape in the mid-to-high $200s ... etc. I bought my first K31 and my M38 from them, and both turned out to be exceptional shooters. Their presence was sorely missed.
Finally, the best rifle I saw at the show was a Finn M39 with absolutely beautiful smoky wood but almost no blueing left - maybe 5-10% blueing. Was marked "SA" and "VKT" - for $250. I'm still kicking myself ... but I didn't have the cash, and probably don't have the budget either. I would have been severely chastised by the wife had I brought that lovely rifle home... but I noticed as soon as I put the rifle back on the rack, another gentleman made a beeline for it, so I'm hoping it found a good home.