A look at the 2 Amendment in Context.

[anymanusa]

It is hard for me to believe that US voters are as pro gun as you say they are if they would vote for a politician who wants to ban handguns.

DId you read my posts? Many many gun owners and hunters voted for him, as did the fools in Pennsylvania that he guaranteed to bankrupt, the coal industry, because he LIED to them. He is already showing his changing colors as each week passes. The people saw a messiah, what he actually does is yet to be seen, but many people do NOT believe that he is against the right to own and bear arms, even though he has made very strong statements against gun ownership... hell,... even I don't know where he stands. I have researched his voting record, watched his speeches, and listened to his rhetoric...

Is it all just a ploy to gain votes and power? OR is he completely serious?? I can't tell, and I'm SURE no one else knows either.

All I have to go on is what he says, and some people are much more gullible than I am. I do NOT trust politicians, but many swallow their bs hook line and sinker.

 

[Sinixstar]

Now the liberals are looking for another $700 Billion in entitlements once B.O. takes office. Typical Liberal ideology, trying to spend their way out of debt. Tax and spend has never worked and won't this time either.

Way off topic.
The only thing i'm going to say to that is - look at history my friend.

 

[Sinixstar]

All I have to go on is what he says, and some people are much more gullible than I am. I do NOT trust politicians, but many swallow their bs hook line and sinker.

Some of us just don't worry about it as much as others. If he's full of BS - he won't be around long.

Anything that is done, can be undone.

 

[anymanusa]

It's an exercise in what I like to call "mental masturbation".
We all know what he was getting at. Are you technically correct if you break down the exact literal meaning of the words? Yes, no one denies that.

Is there a point in refuting the statement to begin with? None that's been provided thus far.

Yeah, sure. I called him out when he was trying to distort reality/the facts, thats about it. I'm not masturbating, and I hope you're not either.

 

[anymanusa]

Some of us just don't worry about it as much as others. If he's full of BS - he won't be around long.

WRONG. He will most likely have an 8 year pass. The only way I see him getting voted out is if he actually sticks to his liberal rhetoric. Otherise, win lose or draw on the economy, he has an 8 year pass.

If he sticks to his campaign rhetoric, this country will be way further down the toilet than we are now, and he will face the firing squad... but he won't be that stupid. We're already seeing him back off his wacko stances... take for instance the big oil 'windfall' taxes that he promised. He's already reversed on that... he will flip flop on MANY other issues as time passes. Watch and see. He is merely a shill.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Way off topic.

As if everything that you have posted was "on topic".

The only thing i'm going to say to that is - look at history my friend.

I have. I've yet to see anything in the way of meaningful reply from you yet other than to tell me to "look at history" and that is thin at best. You make little sense and offer nothing to support your statements. I have a hard time believing that you are a gun owner or a supporter of the Second Amendment. I smell a troll.

 

[Sinixstar]

Watch and see. He is merely a shill.

You say that as if anyone else running was ever any better.

 

[Sinixstar]

As if everything that you have posted was "on topic".

I try to at least come back somewhat to reality from time to time.

I have. I've yet to see anything in the way of meaningful reply from you yet other than to tell me to "look at history" and that is thin at best. You make little sense and offer nothing to support your statements. I have a hard time believing that you are a gun owner or a supporter of the Second Amendment. I smell a troll.

I'm not going to sit here and get into a debate about government spending (although you should really look at the figures for 1981-1992) etc - in a thread that's supposed to be a thoughtful analysis on the wording of the 2nd amendment.

You smell troll? I smell angry little pissant. Guess we both got something unpleasant to deal with huh?

 

[catfish101]

I may be wrong but I always understood that the national guard was t he militia that was described.

In my opinion the National Guard, as it is today, isn't the militia of the Second.

It is impossible to know what the writers of the Bill of rights were thinking. All we can do is assume but we have to look at what just happened and not just the words by definition.

We just over threw a tyrant to become our own country. It was done with the help of everyday citizens not just formal military. I have come to the understanding that allot of the founders didn't trust a large standing army. It makes since. I think that they wanted to insure that everyday citizens had the right to defend their rights. Waging war if it came to that. Until this country won it's independence the founders were normal citizens also.

The Declaration of independence talks about citizens, basically, overthrowing a misguided government. It is their responsibility to do so.

The founders were really special people because of the insight they had for the future. They wanted the citizens to always have the power to change the government if it saw fit. Voting #1. Waging or defending with warfare #2.

 

[Sinixstar]

We just over threw a tyrant to become our own country. It was done with the help of everyday citizens not just formal military. I have come to the understanding that allot of the founders didn't trust a large standing army. It makes since. I think that they wanted to insure that everyday citizens had the right to defend their rights. Waging war if it came to that. Until this country won it's independence the founders were normal citizens also.

Yea - they really didn't like the idea of a standing army under federal control. They knew it would eventually happen, and would probably be needed, but it made 'em pretty nervous. They specifically wanted a militia at the civilian level to counter that.
The militia was also to be a means for the federal government to raise an army quickly ( since they didn't want the federal government to always have an army at it's disposal in the first place ) in the case of a national crisis. Say England came back and decided they wanted a piece of the new world afterall...

In their writings - they were extremely clear about the distinction between the two. The militia was the militia, and it was not under federal control unless absolutely vital for the nation.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Angry pissant, troll. Either is descriptive of what you are doing here. Yep, it is confirmed, I smell troll.

Done with you and your exercise in non-sequitir.

Guess we both got something unpleasant to deal with huh?

Yep. Fortunately, I dont have to deal with you anymore. You can't get away from you.

 

[Sinixstar]

Angry pissant, troll. Either is descriptive of what you are doing here. Yep, it is confirmed, I smell troll.

Done with you and your exercise in non-sequitir.

sure - you first.

 

[anymanusa]

You say that as if anyone else running was ever any better.

I personally wouldn't try to defend someone based on how *****ty his predecessors were. And yes, many before him were better. I've never heard Bush Sr, Bush Jr., or Reagan say "I don't think the ordinary citizen should be able to own a firearm".


My reply on another forum regarding my 'one issue voting';

It's a pretty big 'one issue'. It really sums up how our leadership feels about his 'subjects'. Does your leader view you as an equal, trust you, and respect your rights? Or does he view you as a 'subject', distrust you, and feel the need to control and eviscerate you?

That "One Issue" is probably the most important one in determining the character and mindset of those who govern you.

So yeah, you could say I'm a one-issue voter, and proud of it.

Reagan, Bush Sr (despite his betrayals) and Bush Jr. viewed me as an equal. Obama doesn't.

 

[Sinixstar]

I meant the other candidates this year.

 

[anymanusa]

I meant the other candidates this year

Really? You saw McCain as a commie? I know he was no 'champion' for gun rights, but I never heard him say the stupid chit that I heard from Barry.

 

[catfish101]

Yea - they really didn't like the idea of a standing army under federal control. They knew it would eventually happen, and would probably be needed, but it made 'em pretty nervous. They specifically wanted a militia at the civilian level to counter that.
The militia was also to be a means for the federal government to raise an army quickly ( since they didn't want the federal government to always have an army at it's disposal in the first place ) in the case of a national crisis. Say England came back and decided they wanted a piece of the new world afterall...

In their writings - they were extremely clear about the distinction between the two. The militia was the militia, and it was not under federal control unless absolutely vital for the nation.

This is why I don't think a comparison of todays Guard is correct because it is Gov. controlled.

At some point the militia would have to be under the standing armies control just to keep things organized. Being organized is or not being organized can be a deciding factor in a armed conflict or for anything for that matter.

 

[Sinixstar]

Really? You saw McCain as a commie? I know he was no 'champion' for gun rights, but I never heard him say the stupid chit that I heard from Barry.

I saw him as worse then a commie.
I saw him at the end of the day as wanting the same, if not greater level of control - and being willing to sell his soul and everything he believed in to get it, while still jumping up and down screaming "maverick".

 

[shiftyer1]

Catfish

I agree with what you are saying. Yes it is impossible to KNOW what they were thinking but it's pretty easy I think, to assume with thought into what was going on at the time. I always felt the guard fit the militia description as I understand it. Yes they're controled by the gov. but they're also ordinary citizens not professional soldiers. Not sure how to phrase what i'm thinking I guess I need more coffee.

 

[anymanusa]

I saw him as worse then a commie.

If you are a liberal, I can clearly see why you would think he's worse than a commie.

I saw him at the end of the day as wanting the same, if not greater level of control - and being willing to sell his soul and everything he believed in to get it, while still jumping up and down screaming "maverick".

Maybe so, but he was much more transparent and deserving than Obama, and probably just as capable too. He comes from a long line of people who have served our country well. Obama serves only as a devisive tool, so far, polarizing america to a large extent with his extremist rhetoric, like "I'm going to bankrupt the coal industry,... redistribute the wealth,... I don't think ordinary citizens should be able to own firearms"... etc. etc. etc.

Show me where McCain did any of that.

 

[Ringtail]

No, its not impossible to know what the founders were thinking! They wrote down their thoughts in many different documents. They wrote letters explaining to one another what they were thinking. They kept personal diaries and recorded their thoughts. They published their thoughts, they wrote their thoughts in newspapers. they sent letters to King George detailing their grievances. They put their thoughs in formal public documents such as the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution. These documents still survive today and copies are available to anyone who wants to read them at most public libraries or on line. The only reason for not knowing what the founders thought is not reading what they left behind.

The founders thought in terms of Truths. Fundimental principals that are absolute and unchanging, ideas that are relevant regardless of time and culture.

Of course the 2nd amendment is an individual right. It does not refer to the NG, there was no NG in 1787.