A question about 7.62x54r and Deer

[WolverineFury]

So I've been thinking about this lately and I was hoping that some of you guys here would be able to help me out.

Last year I bought a T53 Mosin. I put some 150gr PPU Soft Point Boat Tail ammo in it, and took three deer. Now I'm wondering if I should make some changes in regards to my ammo selection.

See, on all the deer I shot with the PPU SP-BT, the bullet when completely through the deer. Two of those shots were in the torso area, and one went through/shattered the spine. Now here is where I have issue. The year before last, I was using a .30-06 with 150gr Winchester Super X Soft Point ammo loaded, and on the two deer I took with it there were no exit wounds that I recall (one went through the neck and I know there was no exit on that, the other hit near the jugular and I'm only 80% of no exit wound). The bullet passing all the way through with the PPU leads me to suspect that energy is being wasted. While the Winchesters' not leaving an exit wound seems to suggest a more efficient bullet.

Also of note. We process our own meat, and I've noticed when the skin comes off that the area of clotted blood seems to be significantly smaller when shot with the PPU ammo as opposed to the Winchester. Which seems to also support the suspicion stated in the last paragraph.

My main concern with this ammo is that I'll make a shot which will end up being just outside the kill-zone. Which will make it so that the deer will get away, only to die of the effects several hours/days/weeks down the road. It would seem that the chances of that would be minimized if the bullet used has a larger area it affects (I think the technical term is "has better Terminal Ballistics"?). Or to potentially shorten the time it takes for the animal to bleed out on a good hit.

All that to ask, 7.62x54r hunters. What is your experience with PPU's ammo which I am using, and what is the ammo which you have found to perform the best when hunting deer, or other game in the same class?

Thanks for your time, all answers are appreciated.

Wolv

 

[rcmodel]

1. It must have worked Perfectly, if you recovered the deer to examine the wound channels and dress them out for the freezer.

2. Two holes (entry & exit) will always leave a bigger blood trail then one hole. This is good too.

3. More good meat is better.

4. And blood-shot meat isn't good meat!

At sounds like your ammo is working perfectly just fine to me!

rc

 

[Elvis1]

My brother-in-law used to hunt with a mosin, I remember seeing huge exit wounds and deer dropping like a rock. I don't recall what ammo he used to use but knowing him it was probably cheap surplus stuff. This was in WI with some pretty big whitetail.

 

[m6tlogistics]

rcmodel X 2

 

[nathan]

I hope to see more PPU 180 gr SP for the 54 R caliber. Most of the time they are importing the 150 gr SP.

I ve used the Sellier Bellot 180 gr SP on a huge hog years ago. It dropped like a rock . Of course it was a head shot.

 

[Art Eatman]

I'm not interested in whether or not there's an exit wound. I'm happy if Bambi goes flop. So far, so good.

 

[Davek1977]

I see no reason whatsoever to fix something that obviously isn't broken.

 

[WolverineFury]

Thanks guys, I was kind of thinking that "if it aint' broke, don't fix it." But I wanted to get some others opinions. Really appreciate it.

 

[Godsgunman]

Can't really add to much than what RC already said. As long as you do your job and make proper hits then there's no issue. Sounds like the ammo is doing exactly what it needs to and dropping the deer quickly.

 

[Vol46]

An exit hole is a very good thing - the ballistics of your cartridge are very similar to the 150 grain .308 that I have used successfully on whitetails for over 30 years ( along with a few mule deer and antelope). Tracking has seldom been necessary, but when it is, an exit hole provides a significantly better blood trail.

There is very little " wasted energy", as the bullet is generally not traveling at a high velocity when it exits, depending on what the angle of your shot is, & which organs/ bones it has passed through.

In any event, virtually every hit I have made ( probably a hundred or so) has dumped more than enough energy into the animal to do the job, so any excess expended into the ground behind it was not really needed anyway. IMHO, your 150 grain BTSP traveling at around 2800 - 3,000 FPS is just about perfect for whitetail sized critters.

 

[H&Hhunter]

What the OP. Described above has very little to do with energy or velocity as the two rounds are very close in that department. Rather he is describing a classic difference in terminal bullet performance. The 150 gr Winchester PP. Sounds like a thinner jacketed bullet with lighter construction that the PPU. My guess is that the PPU has a thicker jacket and slower expansion.

 

[Vol46]

What the OP. Described above has very little to do with energy or velocity as the two rounds are very close in that department. Rather he is describing a classic difference in terminal bullet performance. The 150 gr Winchester PP. Sounds like a thinner jacketed bullet with lighter construction that the PPU. My guess is that the PPU has a thicker jacket and slower expansion.

You may be right about bullet construction - I have used primarily Winchester Power Points & Hornady BTSPs over the years, but don't know anything about the PPU. I assumed that most cup & core 150 grain bullets would have similar performance.
In the original question, though, the OP seemed to be looking for more meat/tissue damage, & no exit hole. His sample of 2 has produced dead animals & an exit hole - both good things IMO.

 

[Bezoar]

that specific load is used in russia and in alaska for grizzly bears. lot tougher than bambi. if it didnt work like that in bambi id be worried.

Nothing inferior about the 54r.

 

[LAGS]

In the 7.62x54 the 150 gr would be best, and I take it that you dont reload for that caliber.
Otherwise you can just reduce your load a bit, switch to a 123 gr Sp or I use to use a .312 180 gr Round nose shot at a little slower volocity than Max.
The round nose load is like a 30-30 with some Boot behind it.

 

[der Teufel]

Is energy really wasted when a bullet exits ??

The common assumption is that an exiting bullet carries away 'wasted' energy.

I am not a ballistics expert, but I wonder if this is ALWAYS true . . .

I guess if the bullet could be made to expand a little more, it might use up some additional energy and not exit, but for a given bullet it seems the only way to avoid an exit would be to shoot it at a lower velocity. Now, I understand that to some degree very high velocities aren't necessarily desirable, but I would think that reducing the velocity simply to avoid a bullet exit might be counterproductive.

As long as my bullet expands properly and penetrates well, if it 'over penetrates' a bit I don't know that I care. It just means the wound is as deep as it could possibly be, eh? The key point being that the bullet expands properly.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I always prefer 2 holes in deer. It makes tracking much easier. And if you put a hole in both lungs it doesn't really matter if that hole measures .308 or .345 (just numbers) its gonna equal a dead deer and the blood trail helen Keller could follow makes it much easier.

OP sounds like you are good to go, but if you want more meat and tissue damage shoot for the high shoulder...a lot of damage but deer will be DRT.

 

[a98doc]

It's like

The 7.62x54r is just like a rimed 308 and will do the same thing.
I have three or 4 of them and I would not hesitate to hunt any big game with them like I would grab a 3006 or 308 and go. The fun thing is you can get ammo for 30 to 50 cents a round and practices till the shoulder brings back happy memories.

 

[illinoisburt]

Speed and power of the 7.62x54r is right between 308win and 30-06. This is simply a question of bullet construction. The imported 7.62 .311 hunting bullets tend to have thicker jackets made from tougher materials for a given weight over domestic .308 bullets. The super-X is a thin jacketed bullet that upsets easily with limited penetration. If you used one of the premium C3 rated 308 or 30-06 rounds (think trophy bonded bear claws) you would see exactly the same results with complete penetration on deer sizes animals. For right now the domestic hunting loads of 7.62x54r are somewhat limited, but if you handload essentially any of the standard cup/core designs will give you exactly what you are looking for.

By the way hunting bullets are made to perform at certain speeds. For example 2300 to 2800 is fairly common listing for 150 gr soft point 308. Even though is seems counter-intuitive to get less penetration with a given soft point, drive the bullet faster. The faster it is going, the more the tip upsets or possibly blows apart. Slow the bullet down and the tip deforms less giving you deeper penetration.

 

[Bobson]

In my experience, when rcmodel has input on a thread like this, he's right. I wouldn't change a thing.