A question for LE about approved sidearms

[deepfat]

I will be attending the local Sheriff's academy in August and I was wanting to see if it would be appropriate to ask potential local agencies what their approved sidearms are. I have an XD-40 that to me is the most comfortable weapons I've ever put in my hands. I'd like to eventually carry that as a duty weapon.

I'm guessing it's not appropriate, but just wanting to make sure.

 

[Skribs]

If you don't feel comfortable asking, just get pulled over in each jurisdiction you're curious about and check out what the patrol officer has on his hip! Kidding, kidding...

I'm not LEO but I don't see why it wouldn't be appropriate, especially if you're considering working there. It would be like me asking what the dress code is if I were applying at a new company. Again, not LEO, so I can't say for sure, but that's what I'd think.

 

[gunnutery]

Out of curiosity, is the academy a community outreach program to better learn about LE, or is it to become certified as an LE officer?

Either way, it would be appropriate to ask what various agencies carry or approve. Bigger departments usually only allow issued weapons to be carried, some allow personally owned weapons to be carried but only brand "X" and sometimes more rural agencies either say brand "X" or even "X, Y, or Z". Some may only dictate caliber.

Some people also recommend carrying the same gun or ammo as the local departments, that way if they ever have to shoot someone in self defense, the aggressor's attorney can't claim you used "extra-special-killer-etc" bullets to injure his client.

In my first LEO position, I was told to stick to 9mm or .40 S&W if I veered from the issued gun. I started out with the issued S&W 410 .40 and bought a Glock 22 after I graduated the academy. Just my preference. The upside was that my mags were interchangeable with the deputies' guns, whom I worked with more because we worked alone in our town.

I'm in my second department now. My personal G22 was approved as well and it also matches what everyone else carries. However I recently switched to the dept. issue weapon. I've heard stories of officers using their own weapons in a shootout, only to have them seized as evidence by the state investigators. It's either returned years later or not at all, even if the shoot was justified.

 

[hentown]

Some people also recommend carrying the same gun or ammo as the local departments, that way if they ever have to shoot someone in self defense, the aggressor's attorney can't claim you used "extra-special-killer-etc" bullets to injure his client.

Yeah, you do see absurdities like that posted on the internet by "some people"....some people who don't have a clue about legal matters.

 

[tomrkba]

I will be attending the local Sheriff's academy in August

Call your academy contact and ask. You will be a local deputy and they should have a list--especially if you have to buy your own gun.

 

[gunnutery]

While I don't see a problem with with using whatever HP ammo you want for SD, there are lawyers and judges that don't know about certain legal matters. A common example would be Congress and the SCOTUS. We've been winning landmark victories by very narrow margines.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I don't see why you cannot ask....FWIW, my agency provides the gun and ammo. No exceptions.

 

[jmr40]

I'm not LE, but do a lot of volunteer work with our local Sheriff's dept. In addition to many family and close friends in the profession.

The XD is considered single action only. Almost all departments have guidelines forbidding single action guns from carry by most officers. Some departments will allow highly trained officers such as SWAT to carry 1911's. but even that is not common.

Some departments have virtually no regultions and officers can carry anything they can qualify with. But because of liability concerns that is becoming very rare. If there is a shooting there will be an investigation and the LE agency will almost always be sued. It is a lot easier for LE agencies to properly train, and document that training if everyone is using the same gun. It prevents suits and helps win when they happen.

To the user an XD, Glock and M&P feel pretty much the same, but based on the mechanics of how they work internally the Glock and M&P are classified DAO and are generally allowed.

 

[2wheels]

Heck you're already accepted into the academy aren't ya? Nothing wrong with asking.

I've heard of departments allowing the XD series... But not often. If I had to put money down I'd bet against you being allowed to carry yours. Every department is different though, some seem to be pretty liberal with their weapons policies.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

1. Is this a Citizen's Academy type of thing, or are you self-sponsored going through an academy, or does this mean you've actually been hired by your local Sheriff's Office and are now going through the academy, at the end of which you will be certified by your state's POST board and have a job with said Sheriff's Office?

I ask because you say you're going to your Sheriff's Office academy but also ask about "potential local agencies."

2. Assuming the latter, wouldn't it just be easier to look at the holster of deputies you've ridden with or rubbed shoulders with during the academy?

3. Generally speaking I would say if you go to an interview and the first question out of your mouth is "Can I carry my own gun?", you would be at best considered an amusingly unqualified Tackleberry and at worst have them thinking you only want to be a cop so you can carry a gun, neither of which is a point in your favor when someone is looking to hire.

4. Agency policy varies widely. Anecdotally I would say that departments are fairly evenly split between "Carry this one gun we issue," "Carry any gun from this list," and "Carry what you want with X restrictions."

The bigger the department, the more likely it is that they will have a single issue firearm. For very small departments, the odds are you will purchase your own, and they may or may not assist with that and may or may not have detailed policies regarding acceptable firearms.

I know of several agencies with about 20-40 officers in my state whose policy is "Any reputable firearm in 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP," but the majority of agencies in my state are "Here is a Glock 22," although there is a significant trend in some of our major metro agencies to go back to 9mm.

Because ATF classifies the XD as a single-action pistol, it is on a lot fewer approved lists, but I am sure there are plenty of agencies who allow it.

5. I may be in a minority, because in Minnesota there are a LOT of hurdles to jump to become a law enforcement officer, more than most other states, but while I like guns, I wouldn't let agency firearm policy prevent me from taking a job. The competition is already super fierce for jobs even with our recent public employee pension changes and the accompanying mass retirements, so getting a job is waaaaaaay more important than getting a job that will let you carry your gun of choice.

 

[Jenrick]

Full time LEO here.

Yes it's fine to ask. Now I don't recommend going up to random officers on duty and asking them out of the blue, but if you're calling your recruiter or recruiters from other agencies then by all means ask them. Also the XD has a growing following in LE of agencies allowing it so who knows.

The SO in my county allows officers to select off a list of approved weapons to carry (deputy must furnish weapon and ammo), and the XD is on it.

-Jenrick

 

[miles1]

The police and sheriff's in my area can only chose between a glock gen 4 22 or 23.

 

[Quiet]

The LE Academy will have a list of approved handguns.
Contact them to see what you need to get.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The XD, as noted earlier, is considered single action. (IDPA calls it that, too, and that forces the shooter into the Enhanced Service Pistol class.) I don't know of many LE Agencies that allow SA guns.

The actual gun used is more an economic issue than a functional one for most law enforcement agencies; they'll only consider guns that are used elsewhere, and then they'll look for the best price. S&W and Glock often offer the best prices and best trade-in offers to agencies. If you become an LEO, and you and your department are typical, the gun you actually use won't be as important as you might think.

The vast majority of cops will spend their entire career never using their duty weapon except to do their periodic tests to requalify. You'll use a baton, a stunning weapon like a TAZER, or something like a pepper spray far more often than you'll use a handgun. And like most cops, you'll use what's offered -- to keep from buying or using your own. My son is a state trooper, and he'd prefer having an AR-type weapon available if he's got to get into a gun fight. He has one in the back of his vehicle. Other friends, over the years, have been cops, and most of them shot only at the range.

(But, just because they don't use their weapons a lot doesn't mean that being a COP isn't a stressful, PITA, difficult profession. It is.)

 

[deepfat]

To answer some questions:

- I have not been hired by a local agency yet and will self-sponsoring through the academy. Reason for that is 1) my post-911 GI Bill covers the finance and 2) self-sponsors have a 99% hiring rate in the state.

- The academy satisfies all the requirements of the state's (Mississippi) POST requirements.

- I don't know of one agency down here that even allows 9mm. Heck, the local police department issues .45ACP.

I just don't want to go up to a local agency and get the eyebrow raised if I ask.

 

[wally247]

I know one South Dakota Highway Patrol and one town cop. They both carry XD40's I don't know their rules or anything, I've just seen them both in uniform. I never really thought to ask either.

 

[Jenrick]

The XD, as noted earlier, is considered single action. (IDPA calls it that, too, and that forces the shooter into the Enhanced Service Pistol class.) I don't know of many LE Agencies that allow SA guns.

I have no idea why or how some got to calling an XD single action. It's a striker fired pistol, LE agencies considering just like a Glock, M&P, etc. The biggest thing XD's had going against them for being selected/allowed by LE agencies was the fact you couldn't manipulate the slide without defeating the grip safety. Now that that's changed, their popping up all over the place.

To the OP:

As a self sponsor 1) Contact your academy and verify with them that your XD in whatever caliber you have is acceptable for their range program. I've never seen anyone told they couldn't bring their own gun to a self sponsor academy, but never hurts to ask.

2) When you start contacting various agencies to try to get a job your handgun is a secondary consideration, but still a valid one. Once you get question about things like pay, hours, etc. answered, then ask about your gun. I'd phrase it something along the lines of: "I own and went through the academy shooting my XXXX, would I be able to carry that on duty here?"

-Jenrick

 

[herrwalther]

Yes of course ask. This will be a firearm your life will depend on so it is important to have as much information about it as possible. A buddy of mine didn't ask when he first became a LEO about approved firearms and he was stuck with the issue one for almost a year before he was told he could get something better if he wanted. He immediately ditched his S&W M&P9 for a Glock 21.

 

[KenW.]

My agency will issue a Glock 22 to the uniformed personnel, a G-23 to Sgts and above, and the 27 to undercovers. BUT; if you wish to carry your own weapon in 40SW or 45ACP, you may once it passes an inspection. Many of our folks carry the 1911. I had carried three (2 Colts and then a Kimber) until I switched to the XD line. Plain clothes people may carry as small as a 9mm as a primary side arm. BUGs are authorized provided it is .38 caliber or larger and passes an inspection. While shoots are offered quarterly, everyone must qualify with each weapon annually. I stay qualified on XD9 subcompact, XDM40 compact, XD45 compact, and a Ruger LCR .38 for BUG. That's not mentioning the Mossberg 500 and Rock River AR-15. Duty and qualification pistol ammo other than .40SW and .45ACP, and all BUG ammo, must be supplied by the deputy.

Touch base with your prospective employer; there are still agencies in the dark ages that think a Glock is all anyone needs, and prohibits anything but their Glock of choice.

As far as officer involved shootings go; in my County, the County Attorney will return your weapon to your chief administrator upon completion of the investigation and the officer/deputy is cleared. Here it is not held indefinitely. Your agency may differ.

I love our policy!

 

[mgmorden]

I have no idea why or how some got to calling an XD single action. It's a striker fired pistol, LE agencies considering just like a Glock, M&P, etc.

Its because the Glock and M&P's strikers are partially cocked, but pulling the trigger pulls the striker back just a little bit more and releases it. The XD's striker is fully cocked and is simply released when the trigger is pulled with no further rearward travel.

Honestly, I don't see how we got to separate things into "Single-action", "double action", and "striker".

Truthfully, single action and double action are independent of whether or not something is hammer vs striker fired. The Walther PPX and Beretta PX4 "C" model are both hammer fired guns that behave more like a Glock (partially cocked). The XD is a striker fired gun that is really single-action. The Walther P99AS is a striker gun that behaves like a traditional DA/SA hammer gun (can do single or double action pulls and has a decocker).

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

Deepfat, are you going to MLEOTA Or "Sheriff's training academy"? The later, in this state, (Mississippi) seem to be more county specific, or a joint effort between a couple of counties.
I have a good friend who recently retired from MLEOTA, and could get some answers for you, if that's where you are enrolled.
STW

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I have no idea why or how some got to calling an XD single action. It's a striker fired pistol, LE agencies considering just like a Glock, M&P, etc.

Some agencies consider it to be like a Glock, but not all agencies. And certainly not all federal agencies. The BATF considers the XD to be a single-action weapon, as does IDPA, which makes forces it to compete in the Enhanced Service Pistol Division in their matches. Originally, the "action" described what happened when you pulled the trigger, and I'd argue that the presence or absence of a hammer is sort of irrelevant.

Note: I spent so much time trying to phrase this properly, that I'm repeating some things already posted.

There are guns that are:

1) single action, where some other action, such as hand-cocking or slide movement charges the hammer spring or striker spring, and the trigger simply releases that stored energy by letting the hammer or the striker go... The XD falls into this category, along with 1911s, BHPs, and a lot of other guns, including the old striker-fired LUGERs! (I've had a couple of those, and they had GREAT triggers!)

2) double action, where pulling the trigger cocks/charges the hammer/striker spring and also releases the hammer or the striker. I had a CZ-100 that was a true double-action striker-fired gun, and a Sphinx 2000 that was a true double-action ONLY hammer-fired gun.

3) semi-double action (or Safe Action, or modified Double-Action) in which slide movement is used to partially charge the hammer/striker spring, with the trigger pull adding extra force to the process. Pulling on through released the now fully charged springs to drop a hammer/ release a striker. Glocks do this, as do some S&W semi-autos, like the 4043 I once had: pulling the trigger wouldn't do anything unless there was a modest amount of slide movement, first.

Maybe there should be a fourth group:

DA/SA guns (or SA/DA) are really double-action weapons that can be cocked by slide movement or by hand-cocking, like a SA gun, or worked by using ONLY the trigger, like a true DA gun. Are these guns in a class by themselves? Perhaps. They are certainly pistols with a dual nature...

 

[[email protected]]

When you interview with a local agency they should let you know the details about what equipment they will provide you with and what you will have to provide, weapon included. I wouldn't walk into an interview and ask, but the subject should come up if they are serious about hiring you. I also wouldnt bring up the fact that you like your xd and would like to carry it, but if they tell you that you have to provide your own handgun you could then ask if the xd is on the approved list. If they say yes then you could tell the interviewer(s) that you already have one and that you have been training with it. Remember its not always what you ask, sometimes its how you ask. Sometimes it's about leading them to ask you a question so you can respond and ask a follow up question to find out what you need or want to know. One of the most important parts of the job is situational awarness so you know whats going on around you. What Skribs said makes sense to a point, but instead of getting pulled over so much, just look when you see the local officers out in public.

 

[deepfat]

Sun-Tzu, it's not the MLEOTA, but the collaborative county academy. I believe there is a co-op with three counties here that recognize the academy.

 

[deepfat]

Don't get me wrong, I hope I never have to take it out of the holster but in the case that I do, I feel more secure with something I've put a couple thousand rounds through.