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A question for the AR15/M16 .223 auto accuracy pro's

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by helz_mcfugly, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. helz_mcfugly

    helz_mcfugly Member

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    All my Ar's have 1-9 twist, from stainless bull barrels to chrome lined h-bars, to chrome lined m4's. I have always been able to get 1" to 1.5" MOA at 100 yards out of them using 50 to 55 grain v-max or 40 and 45 gr noslers, Ive even went up to 68 grain HP, and many others, all differnt powders and charges and have only gotten 3/4 or better MOA every now and then. I have good optics so factor that out. my question is this, what bullet, powder and charge, brass, and primer are you using,YOUR MOST ACURATE ROUND. And how do you clean your barrel, like what do you use to decopper, what do you use as a solvent, and how often.
    I am asking from a benchrest prospective.
    (and my most consecutive accurate load so far is a 55 gr V-max with 25.5 gr of BL-C(2) with CCI primer, and winchester .223 brass)
     
  2. loadedround

    loadedround Member

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    In a nut shell, the 68 gr and heavier bullets are recommended for use only in 1/7 twist .223/5.56 barrels in the AR15/M16 rifle. Lighter weight bullets will usually not stabilize properly in the faster twist barrels and will not shoot decent groups. The 55 gr bullet would be the proper weight for your use in your 1/9" twist barrel. You may want to experiment with slightly lighter or heavier bullets in your AR15, but from my experience the 55 gr would be the perfect weight, but that's just one man's experience. :)
     
  3. BikerNut

    BikerNut Member

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    My recommendation: 55 gr V-max with 25.5 gr of BL-C(2) with CCI primer, and winchester .223 brass.

    No, seriously. What you are currently getting best results with is going to be your best shot (pun intended) at improvement. Now just work on perfecting your breathing, heart rate, sling position, etc.

    V-Max bullets have been getting lots of raves from the AR-15 highpower competition crowd.
     
  4. NuJudge

    NuJudge Member

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    For 200 yard matches I shoot 52gr Sierra, 26.5gr 748, CCI regular in a Winchester case. This load is a little wind sensitive at 200 yards, but the range I usually shoot on only has wind from behind.

    I oil the bolt and use Kroil on the bore between matches all winter, and clean with brushes and Shooter's Choice in the spring.
     
  5. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    The 1-9 twist is MADE for 60 grain bullets. It also shoots the 50 - 55 grainers well. My bushy 1-9 20" h-bar also does quite well with the 69 Nosler match. I never went below 55 grain bullets, no need to.

    There's no magic formula that's going to work for every rifle. Load development is part of the allure of handloading. I occasionally see under one inch groups from my best loads. I'm happy with that! If I wanted better groups, I would have a match barrel made for it, maybe some better bolts parts. The addition of a jewel trigger has made an enormous improvement!
     
  6. ForneyRider

    ForneyRider Member

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    I like 75gr Hornady BTHP, 24gr R15 (or Varget), Remington brass (full-length and match-prepped (okay, sorta)), Fed 205 primer with 2.255 OAL. This is for my 1:9 DPMS Panther Bull 20.

    Reading all I can, and watching You tube videos, primer choice is all over the place for accuracy loads. Some prefer military primers and Russian primers. Others go with Federal Gold Match or CCI match.

    Remington brass requires more work than Lapua, Norma, Nosler, but is much cheaper. The Marine shooting competitors recommended Remington brass in an article I read. A semi-auto will tear up brass more quickly than bolt gun.

    Full-length size the brass, trim, chamfer and debur. Take a flash hole debur tool and get the inside. I got a lot of brass cleaned out with the Redding. Uniform the primer pocket and clean the inside of the neck. Weight-sort components. For Lapua, Norma, Nosler, all these steps have been done.

    Sierra, Berger and others have twist recommendations for their bullets. For 1:9, typically, 69-75gr is tops. Not to say try one of the long Bergers in that range, but Berger has a 73gr, I think, they recommend for 1:9 twist AR.

    Lapua Scenar, Berger match, Sierra Match King, Nosler Custom Competition, Hornady BTHP and A-Max are all match bullets. Then there are small-batch guys making J4 jacket match ammo.
     
  7. FredT

    FredT Member

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    If you are not using Varget, you could be missing out on a lot. With your 1 in 9 you should be using a heavier bullet than you are. All of the above stuff applies.
     
  8. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    I found varget to only work for bullets 60 grain and up. It's too slow for the 55 grainers, "in my rifle".

    I forgot to mention in my first post, the 60 grain "V"-max is my favorite bullet. It also comes close to the most accurate. On bowling pins, it expands so well, they really go flying.
     
  9. NuJudge

    NuJudge Member

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    Varget

    For a lot of people, they swear by Varget in the .223. For the 1:9, 1:8 and 1:7 AR barrels I have, all I've done is swear at it. :cuss:

    There are websites that have .223 data used by very accomplished shooters. The problem is that unlike 7.62x51 and .30-'06 chambers in Service Rifles, there are lots of different chamber, throat and leade designs used in .223 Service Rifles. Some of the websites are below:

    http://radomski.us/njhp/
    http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm
     
  10. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    These were shot with 26.0 Varget, 50 Nosler BT's, Fed Match primers, WW cases. 268 yards lasered

    I have a friend that shoots Master Class in High Power that recommended it.

    Gunpix-1.jpg
     
  11. helz_mcfugly

    helz_mcfugly Member

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    I have the 2 stage jewel trigger and have the breathing down. I have 8lbs of varget, ill give it a work up.
     
  12. Casefull

    Casefull Member

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    The hotter loads always group better in my ar rifles. I have the best results with powders that leave little or no room in the case.
     
  13. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

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    to the accuracy experts. I have a 1:9 twist HBAR 20", and get sub 3/4" groups with open sights on a bad day with 69 grain SMK out of my rifle.

    1:9 twist will shoot 69 grain easily, and might even shoot 73 or 75 grain depending on length of the bullet along with FPS.

    I think the OP issues might be his trigger. There is no mention of the trigger he is using. Your trigger is the most overlooked variable when talking accuracy with rifles. Especially on internet forums.
    It is not always trimming the load to get better groups. The rifle sometimes has to be tuned as well.

    I am no expert, but I tell you this. A 1:9 twist is not limited to 60 grain and below.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  14. helz_mcfugly

    helz_mcfugly Member

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    yea look at post 11. I have a jewel 2 stage trigger. best trigger ive ever felt on ar AR. I have it set perfect. another note, I can get dehind another guys rifle who has found his perfect load and shoot one ragged hole at 100 yards. I think im going to try a new scope with my next load workup. I have a leapold 3-9X40 that I know will not give a mirage. Im useing a Bushnel Elite 24X now. ya never know till ya try.
     
  15. ForneyRider

    ForneyRider Member

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    69gr SMK and 75gr Hornady BTHP are pretty close in size. The 75gr A-Max is quite a bit bigger.

    The R15 is pretty comparable to the Varget, easier to find and cheaper.
     
  16. helz_mcfugly

    helz_mcfugly Member

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    gunna stop at worthams today and see what he has as far as 60gr and above and try them out with varget.
     
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