A use of cover question

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

davek

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
188
Location
Memphis, TN
I recently took a one day tactical carbine course, and while I had a lot of fun and learned a bunch, there was one technique that we used that I didn't feel really comfortable with. It involved using cover where you're shooting around a corner that is opposite of your strong hand

Okay, that didn't make any sense.

In other words, say you're right handed, and you're shooting the left (relative to you) side of a wall. You can't shoot like you normally would because too much of you would be exposed....I guess.

From here on out, just assume I'm right handed...'cause I am.

Anyway, the way they had us do it was to center the buttstock in the middle our chest, instead of our right shoulder, and then cant it 90 degrees to the left so that the ejection port is on top, then "barrel sighting" it like a shotgun. That "like a shotgun" part wasn't much help to me because I don't shoot my shotgun from the center of my chest canted at 90 degrees either. :confused:

The end result is that you're pointing your carbine in the general area of the threat while exposing the absolute minimum of yourself to the target. It works real good at that. That's for sure.

Problem was, I just couldn't figure out how to get any accuracy at all doing it that way, and ended up walking my shots to the target.

Has anyone else heard of this technique?

Are there any other ways of doing this that I could try?
 
Shooting weak side by holding firearm sideways to reduce exposure? Yes, I was taught that. It works if you practice, but then again, for defensive purposes -if you have hard cover, why stick your head out?
 
Shooting weak side by holding firearm sideways to reduce exposure? Yes, I was taught that. It works if you practice,
Click to expand...

Cool! I shall practice more then.

but then again, for defensive purposes -if you have hard cover, why stick your head out?
Click to expand...

I reckon it's so that you can see what you're shooting at.
 
Move back from the cover. Place your carbine on your strong side. Bend at the waist to whichever side you want to shoot until you get a sight picture. Your whole upper body and sight picture will be canted, but it will be accurate enough for typical carbine ranges. This only exposes barrel, and top of your head if done properly. You naturally don't stay in that position any longer then it takes you to make the shot. Also works with handguns. You can shoot this from standing or kneeling. Works best from kneeling if you are on both knees, not the standard kneeling position (weak arm braced on weak side knee).

HTH

Jeff
 
I was always taught how to shoot both strong and weak side so as to take advantage of available cover. My philosophy: it doesn't matter if 90% of the shooters in the world are right handed, you know that on average, 50% of the corners are left handed. Learn both. As for the point shooting that you were taught (that's what it is), it's probably good out to about 30 meters if not much precision is required. What if only part of the bad guy is exposed? You need to be able to place your shots as precisely left handed as you do right handed.
 
It's Your Gunfight...

Personally, I teach shifting the gun to the left shoulder when shooting around the left side of cover and vice versa. Leaning enough to shooting right-handed around the left side of cover exposes more of your head and body than I consider healthy. Further, it also destabilizes you for any significant recoil.

Shooting with the butt in the center of the chest is known as the "GSG-9 technique." It was developed by the former West German border patrol, for use with MP5 submachine guns. It is a good close-range technique which remains comfortable up to at least .223 recoil.
 
Practice weak side shooting. You probably will never be as good as with your strong side, but get good enough for an emergency at short range.

All those other techniques assume that the range is short, as it usually is; none would be of much use at 1000 yards at Perry.

But when thinking cover, don't just think walls. Think curbs, mail boxes, cars, light posts, trash piles, dumpsters, etc. If you are expecting trouble, keep your eyes open for any and all possible cover. Even just dropping flat will be better than standing up.

That is why, IMHO, the "stances" taught in some SD classes are silly. To me, only a damned fool will stand upright and assume the "proper" stance while bullets are flying. I have never been shot, but have it on good authority that it is not pleasant, so I think taking cover and protecting one's own precious hide is more important than making sure that your legs are at a precise 45 degree angle or you feet are poised correctly.

One guru compared the "proper" stance to a baseball batter awaiting the pitch. Maybe he missed the point that a pitcher is (usually) not trying to kill the batter, where an armed opponent most definitely is trying to kill his opponent.

Jim
 
If you do decide to shoot from the weak side shoulder, make sure you practice with the type of optic you will be using. You may need to close your dominant eye or keep both open, depending on the type of optic.
 
This is an interesting situation I have not given it any previous thought. I use an eotech holographic sight on my primary carbine. I think it would make the shot a lot easier than traditional sights. I plan to give this some practice/experimentation on my next private range trip.

Thanks for posting this.
 
another okie said:
If you do decide to shoot from the weak side shoulder, make sure you practice with the type of optic you will be using. You may need to close your dominant eye or keep both open, depending on the type of optic.
Click to expand...
Funny story. First time shooting weak side shoulder w/ carbine it took me at least 30s to find the frikken dot in my M3. Kind of funny. It would be really funny if someone was trying to kill me.

bsf: “Could you hold up a second Mr. BG, I cannot seem to find my dot?”
BG: [thinking to himself] “Stupid bleep.”
Bang bang bang bang bang.
bsf: [thinking to himself while taking last breath] “That did not work so well for me.”
 
I'm right handed. I will keep my right hand on the pistol grip, shift shoulders to the left shoulder and make my hits. An EO-Tech (or Aimpoint) makes "non-dominant side" shooting a thousand times easier.

Before going to the range and experimenting with different positions, unload your rifle and try it around the house to get comfortable with it.

Another note on cover - make sure you're AT LEAST arms-length back from cover. Crowding cover should only be done if there's a threat that's up above you. Think of cover as anything you can put betwen you and a badguy trying to shoot you. That cover could be 50 yards away. If you move laterally, keeping the cover 50 yards away but blocking the incoming fire, it's still cover even if it's far, far away.

Oh, and with a few minor exceptions, cars are CONCEALMENT - not cover - even against pistol rounds.

Hope this helps,
Mike
 
One other important cover tip: make sure the barrel is clear from cover, not just the sights. The sights are higher than the barrel, and if you are shooting over or around cover it is very possible to have your sights on target and put a bullet into your cover, which is not pleasant.
 
Years ago, when I was a LEO, I broke my right thumb and forefinger. Being a "righty", that put me in a bind for shooting a handgun, but I didn't want to be without a handgun. I started practising as a "lefty".

At the same time, I went on a shooting trip with several of my buddies. One of them was a "lefty", and I watched as he shot a rifle that way. I mimicked his style and practised it. I also got in a lot more "lefty" handgun shooting during that trip.

You might be amazed at how you can adapt. It felt very strange at first, but with more practise, it wasn't that bad. When my thumb and forefinger were healed, I would still practise with both sides....not totally ambidextrous, but CLOSE!

By the way, I also practise using both eyes for sighting. Of course, it's more natural with the dominant eye, but I do fairly good with even the weak side eye. I think that aiming with the left eye while shooting as a "righty" is called the "Quell method"....and also includes a slight modification of the Isoceles method.
 
Holding the stock in the center of the chest and barrel sighting is good for managing recoil and eliminating any eye dominance problems while presenting a small target, but I'd only use it with a fully automatic fire, or a shotgun.

I've practiced enough to be a decent shot (sort of :rolleyes:) with my left (non-dominant) eye, so with a semi-automatic rifle, I'd shift the stock all the way over to my left shoulder to take the shot. The cheek weld is going to range from uncomfortable, to non-existent, and recoil will be more uncomfortable than how you were taught, but you'll be able to look through the sights and present a very small target. And then, if needed, and given the opportunity, change to left-handed shooting completely.
 
I back off from cover as much as possible, keep the rifle in a normal firing grip, but move the buttstock to my left shoulder. Tuck the left elbow in under the rifle and cant the firle to get the rear sight in front of my right eye (sorta). Not the most accurate, but definately good enough for torso hits out to about 50 yards and head shots to about 25 yards. Moving around hard corners, that's fairly decent range. I don't find it stable enough for auto or burst fire, but I can recover quickly enough for fast doubles.
 
Shooting around (your) left of an obstacle can sometimes be useful too; in that most people expect shots to come from a right handed person to (your) right side of an object or barrier and visa versa.

So in the case of an object or barrier small enough to where you can change from the right to left side you might catch them out first time around - or at least shake them up not knowing which side you are going to shoot from.
 
And lets not forget that some techniques lend themsleves well to not only just shorter, optics bearing long guns, but when wearing and having to work around certain items like soft and hard body armor coupled with other gear... and at speeds where adopting a certain stance in a certain way might not be a realistic option.

As for me, I've been fortunate to received instruction on several options, and incorporate them into training so that should the need ever arise I'll hopefully be able to flow from one to another and back aas necessary under potentially difficult circumstances.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top