About 1911s and their "upgrades"

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silent knight

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Are the upgrades a "must" in order for them to work or is it something someone preffers? What are the most common changes/upgrades people do on 1911s? If say, you get a standard SA 1911 or a RIA what's the first thing youd change beside the sights and trigger work? The trigger work is it because the trigger on a stock 1911 suck or what? What else, extractor etc? Why change or upgrade?
 
Reliability is the only "must" for me; the rest are enhancements to make it easier or more comfortable to draw, shoot straight, reload quickly, etc - and those are done to each person's individual requirements and tastes.
 
1.) Make sure that the gun is safe. Check the fit of the thumb and grip safeties and refit/replace as necessary. Check the trigger group, especially the locations of the hammer and sear pins.
2.) Make sure the gun will run. This involves checking the barrel timing (http://www.schuemann.com/Content/testkit0.htm) and the extractor fit and tension. Correct anything that needs correcting.
3.) Replace the sights with my favorites.
4.) Adjust the trigger pull as necessary.

- Chris
 
I would not do anything...

At least until you have shot the thing for a few hundred rounds. If it has a problem let the maker / importer fix it on their time and money.

After that it is up to what you want or need. Long ago I use to do all kinds of things to my 1911's. In the end, or least now, I find I only worry about reliability and a smooth consistent trigger. I do like a long trigger, and I even like the arched mainspring housing.
My CCW is a SA GI that has been back to the factory to fix a feed problem. It got a 4.5# trigger, Mil-Spec sights and a reliability package. It is all I NEED.

Your results may vary....
 
"The Modern Technique of the Pistol" has a chapter on Handgun Modifications.

If I can excerpt & paraphrase from this a little -

ESSENTIALS -

1. Snag-proof, combat sights (front sight ramped, rear sight devoid of sharp corners.)
2. Manageable trigger (around 4 lbs, little creep, 1/8" or less reset.)
3. Dehorning (no part of the pistol should chafe, gouge or rip one's person or clothing.)

USEFUL -

1. Extended thumb safety.
2. Lower ejection port slightly to improve clearance for ejecting case.
3. Beveled magazine well aids in inserting single-stack magazines. (Not an add-on funnel, which is unnecessarily large.)
4. Throat chamber opening and polish feed ramp for reliable feeding, especially of hollow point ammunition.
5. Round and polish the bottom edge of the extractor, enhances reliability by easing the extractor's engagement of the case rim, reducing retardation of the slide's forward movement and lessening damage to case rim (of interest to reloaders.)

QUESTIONABLE -

1. Ducktail grip safety unnecessary if pistol is dehorned properly.
2. Ambidextrous safeties. (If left-handed, have the off-side platform of an ambidextrous safety removed.) These just invite accidental safety release by clothing.
3. Recoil buffers.

OBJECTIONABLE -

1. Sight ribs.
2. Extended slide stops.
3. Muzzle brakes, including ported barrels and slides.
4. Extended magazine release buttons.
5. "Action tightening" to match standards. Most tightly-fitted pistols suffer reliability to achieve this level of accuracy (there are exceptions.)


The author is Gregory Morrison, edited by Jeff Cooper. This is an excellent book, IMO. Most of it covers technique, but there is some discussion of equipment. Heavily slanted toward 1911 pistol, with revolvers acknowledged.
 
lots of opinions here and thats about all they are. including mine but lets look at this in a logical manner.

as stated shoot the gun if it works with ball ammo then good if not a reliability jub should be done. Just find a gun smith to do this part. but if it shoots well then it can wait.

So lets say it shoots well you cant hit with sights that you cant see so sights

now you can hit whats next the safety if you cant live with the stock one replace it with a wider one.

now you can draw and safety and shoot but that grip safety is digging your hand so comander style hammer and beaver tail(you can do this your self if you get a book and have a little mechanical ability)

now your good to go if you have not done so yet get a reliability package and a trigger job at the same time

after than I suggest a mainspring housing/mag well. Helps speed up mag changes

After that if you want one a guide rod they are not a necessity in 1911's

so in over view if the gun works fine as is.

1. sights
2. thumb safety
3. hammer and beaver tail
4. reliabiity package and trigger job
5. mag well
6. guide rod

just a word on triggers lots of folks say 4 to 6 pounds on 1911 triggers
some say 3.5 pounds is the minimum safe trigger
As contraversial as it is I have had them with 12 oz triggers and carried it it never malfunctioned for over 35k rounds I carry a ria 38 super with a 2 pound trigger and 5k on it it also has never malfunctioned. Its not for every one but it can be safe if done properly. If you get to shoot a light trigger it will spoil you forever.
 
"The Modern Technique of the Pistol" has a chapter on Handgun Modifications.

If I can excerpt & paraphrase from this a little -

ESSENTIALS -

1. Snag-proof, combat sights (front sight ramped, rear sight devoid of sharp corners.)
2. Manageable trigger (around 4 lbs, little creep, 1/8" or less reset.)
3. Dehorning (no part of the pistol should chafe, gouge or rip one's person or clothing.)

USEFUL -

1. Extended thumb safety.
2. Lower ejection port slightly to improve clearance for ejecting case.
3. Beveled magazine well aids in inserting single-stack magazines. (Not an add-on funnel, which is unnecessarily large.)
4. Throat chamber opening and polish feed ramp for reliable feeding, especially of hollow point ammunition.
5. Round and polish the bottom edge of the extractor, enhances reliability by easing the extractor's engagement of the case rim, reducing retardation of the slide's forward movement and lessening damage to case rim (of interest to reloaders.)

QUESTIONABLE -

1. Ducktail grip safety unnecessary if pistol is dehorned properly.
2. Ambidextrous safeties. (If left-handed, have the off-side platform of an ambidextrous safety removed.) These just invite accidental safety release by clothing.
3. Recoil buffers.

OBJECTIONABLE -

1. Sight ribs.
2. Extended slide stops.
3. Muzzle brakes, including ported barrels and slides.
4. Extended magazine release buttons.
5. "Action tightening" to match standards. Most tightly-fitted pistols suffer reliability to achieve this level of accuracy (there are exceptions.)


The author is Gregory Morrison, edited by Jeff Cooper. This is an excellent book, IMO. Most of it covers technique, but there is some discussion of equipment. Heavily slanted toward 1911 pistol, with revolvers acknowledged.
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The important thing to realize is that someone who has never touched any gun at all before should be able to identify what are listed as "essentials" here. At the same time, virtually all of the manufacturers put out pistols that may or may not meet the "essentials." I wouldn't buy any 1911 without examining it first.
 
I agree with Coopers list, but would put full-length guide rods on it in the "objectional" catagory, and would separate "tactically extended" mag releases and put into the useful catagory, and "competition extended" mag releases in the "objectionable" catagory. I'd also put shokbuff in "objectionable". I do want to clarify something because it reads funny
Ambidextrous safeties. (If left-handed, have the off-side platform of an ambidextrous safety removed.) These just invite accidental safety release by clothing.
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If you are a lefty and use just the left-handed side of an ambi safety, the safety will be completely non-functional. What he is talking about here is cutting off the lever on the right handed side so it can't get swiped off when it's on the outside in your holster.


Now, almost all of my 1911's have been modified in one way or another. I have a MilSpec that I didn't do anything to except get rid of their lawyer-lock and rework the trigger. Neither of these were necessary, they were something I do because that's how I personally like it. I don't consider this a modification or alteration, really, just a bit of clean-up. Others have been so completely altered nothing is original but the frame and slide.

Thats the key to the modifications of 1911's. The guns are so completely customizable to what your preferences are, most people change a few things at least. If you like the way the first 300 rounds shoot, don't change a thing.

So to answer your question, other than trigger and sights, no, there really isn't anything else needed done to a MilSpec 1911. The trigger work isn't because the triggers suck, it's because they can be so unbelievably nice with a minor amount of work.
 
To answer your question, if its a new gun, then it shouldn't need any "upgrades" to get it running, just love. The upgrades that most people do to 1911s are because of personal taste, and user preferences.
 
If it's built to spec, it should need no "upgrades" to be a perfectly viable pistol....like owning a Harley, customizing "musts" are driven as much by market as anything else....the difficulty being getting a gun actually made to spec, my own personal feeling that Colt does better than most any other copy or "improved" version...single largest class of mod actually needed would be a grip safety which guarantees you won't get bit by the hammer, and that varies from hand to hand. Personally, I can shoot a true 1911 with no problem, but other folk will report the exact opposite.
 
Personal preference, really. The only things my 1911's "need" are better sights and beavertails. I don't see well, and the stock hammers and grip safeties tend to bite my fat hand (pinched between hammer and safety spur).
 
If it's built to spec, it should need no "upgrades" to be a perfectly viable pistol
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Stock specs will not shoot all hollow points especially light gold dots! Stock specs should handle ball fine but was not deaigned for hollow pounts or semi wad cutters for that matter.
 
weisse52 wrote:
would not do anything...

At least until you have shot the thing for a few hundred rounds. If it has a problem let the maker / importer fix it on their time and money.
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Amen to that.

The most common gripe when I was in the USN was that people didn't like the tiny GI sights. They allow for fantastic accuracy, but are not as quick on the uptake as newer sights.
 
There are no "essentials" to improve function, the pistol should run with or withot these changes. What the suggested changes do is make the pistol easier to handle and use.

Jeff Cooper was fond of saying that the only thing a 1911 needed was sights you can see and a trigger you can manage. That covers a lot of ground when you factor in personal preferences and skill level.

Now I have to admit to having a few 1911's that are nowhere near original configuration, but the changes were made to fit my personal wants and needs, not "fix" anything about the pistols. If they didn't work right from the beginning, I wouldn't have wasted time and money on them.

There are a lot of gimmicks out there, some companies will sell you pieces and parts that they claim will halve your groups, double your speed and make you impervious to the common cold. Caveat Emptor.

Shoot your pistol for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you'd like to change. Take a while to think about it, make lists on paper, revise that list every time you go shooting. Changing your mind on paper is cheap. Changing your mind in metal gets spendy in a hurry.
 
I'd add extended safeties to the objectionable category too if its to be a carry gun -- makes it too easy for the safety to be activated accidentally unless your holster specifically accommodates blocking the extended safety.

--wally.
 
My opinion is that a normal sized 1911 (5" GM or 4.25" Commander Model) should not need next to nothing to run reliably beyond good mags and springs.

Sights that you can use are a must. If you have good eyes and you can use the GI sights that's great. They are about as snag free as you can get. If you are like me and have an astigmatism in both eyes a nice set of Novak or Heinie sights are a must of a defensive pistol. If it is a range or target gun adjustable sights are nice to have.

Stay away from adding oversize levers and controls unless you are building a race gun, are left handed, or have some disability that prevents you from operating the standard stuff. On a carry gun it just adds more things to snag on or activate inadvertently.

The full length guide rod is useless; serving no real functional use other than to make the pistol more difficult to disassemble.

The beaver tail grip safety is IMO useful. I do get hammer bite with a spur hammer and GI GS. I think it adds protection to a cocked hammer (not that it is likely to happen or if it did to damage anything) from being whacked if you fall or drop the gun.

Lowered ejection ports, polished feed ramps, etc. are useful changes if your gun has exhibited problems that necessitate them. There are a lot of GI guns that run just fine with out any modification at all.
 
The only changes I make to 1911's are to replace full length guide rods with GI length guide rods and trigger jobs if I don't like the trigger pull.
 
Stock specs will not shoot all hollow points especially light gold dots
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My MilSpec fed hollowpoints just fine right out of the box. So did my Colt, S&W, Kimber, Daly, I don't know of anyone who has had this complaint about a pistol built in the last 20 years.


I'd add extended safeties to the objectionable category too if its to be a carry gun -- makes it too easy for the safety to be activated accidentally unless your holster specifically accommodates blocking the extended safety
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With a non-ambi safety, the safety rides on the inside, how does it get clicked off like this? All of mine are extended, it is the only extended control I put on mine, and I never have a problem with my safety being deactivated.
 
It can get clicked off by your shirt or other clothing on that "inside side". Ambi safeties can also get clicked off by a jacket or other cover garment, of course.

Some holsters come up high enough on the "inside" to keep moving clothing from snagging the safety, some don't.

As was already posted, the "original safety" is a little more difficult to operate, but it's also almost impossible to accidentally click it off with clothing as it doesn't have anything protruding enough to catch. :)
 
My MilSpec fed hollowpoints just fine right out of the box. So did my Colt, S&W, Kimber, Daly, I don't know of anyone who has had this complaint about a pistol built in the last 20 years.
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I had a SA milspec that would not feed light gold dots or hydrashocks. And would not feed lead SWC at all. My para would not feed anything but ball. I have seen a number of "new"1911's that are a bit picky about what they will eat.
It can get clicked off by your shirt or other clothing on that "inside side". Ambi safeties can also get clicked off by a jacket or other cover garment, of course.
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Possible but I have never seen or heard of this. Your safety would have to be just about completely worn out for this to happen.
The full length guide rod is useless; serving no real functional use other than to make the pistol more difficult to disassemble.
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Keeps spring bind to a minimum, can ad some weight to the front of the gun which helps in recoil control.
There are a lot of GI guns that run just fine with out any modification at all.
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true but there are some that were just a tuch out of wack too and need a bit of TLC
 
Eric, where do you get your info that stock spec guns won't feed hollowpoints? There's a bunch of GI issue guns from pre-WWI up to the present that says you're wrong? Ask Tuner.....my CURRENT production Colt WWI repro shoots them fine, also....
 
Keeps spring bind to a minimum, can ad some weight to the front of the gun which helps in recoil control.
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No such thing as spring bind on a 1911 with a standard spring. Doesn't happen, never has, never will. As for weight, how much do you think a guide rod weighs?? How much weight to you think it would take to counter-act the recoil of a 1911??
Myths.

I had a SA milspec that would not feed light gold dots or hydrashocks. And would not feed lead SWC at all. My para would not feed anything but ball
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Then your guns need to go back to the factory and get fixed. There is no reason why this ammo shouldn't feed. All my 1911's were stocked with HydraShoks until recently, and I can't imagine having SWC feed issues if the ammo was properly loaded.
 
Eric, where do you get your info that stock spec guns won't feed hollowpoints
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personal ownership of several and lots of guys I use to shoot IPSC and IDPA with.
how much do you think a guide rod weighs?? How much weight to you think it would take to counter-act the recoil of a 1911??
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Lets see the one in my gun weigh 3.43 ounces and every little bit counts.
Then your guns need to go back to the factory and get fixed
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No It needed to be throughted and have the feed ramp polished. Fact is most places now make their 1911's with the added features that they did not come with 20 years ago. Why because they didnt work too well then with other than ball ammo.
No such thing as spring bind on a 1911 with a standard spring
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I never said that 1911 spring bind was not possible, I was just that guide rods are not exactly useless.
 
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