About handgun "Match" ammo.

[BADUNAME30]

I have many years experience at reloading match grade/benchrest rifle ammo but never gave much thot to "match" grade handgun ammo.
Could someone please define match grade when it comes to handgun, both auto and revolver,ammo ? Do things like case length (in revolvers..i know it's importance in autos),partial sizing, deburing flash holes, squaring heads/primer pockets come into play with these ammos or are they a wasted chore ?
If it matters, my queries are for Colt Series 70 .45 ACP, and Ruger Vaquero.
Thank you for your time and input.
Jim

 

[jwr747]

same as rifle ammo. pay a little more attention to detail.you and the "Dillon 550" can "have at it" and pump out 450 rounds an hour. or take a little more effort to make sure everything "feels just right" and make 250 rounds an hour.or get on your Rock Chucker and turn out 40 rounds an hour. any difference in the "match grade everything perfect" 45 ACP round,and the everyday "thats close enough"45 ACP round.I'm not good enough to tell at 50 yds. can Rob Latham tell the difference,probably not,he just has to hit a 6in. plate. jwr

 

[rcmodel]

1. Good brass from the same lot, or at least the same manufacture.

2. Trimming is not necessary for taper-crimping a straight wall pistol case, but you can do it if you want.

3. GI Match pistol ammo does not have uniformed or deburred flash holes, but you can do that too if you want.

4. Good bullets of known accuracy.
Hornady XTP's will shoot very well in any gun, as will about any brand of SWC or target WC.

5. Follow a good recipe out of a good Reloading Manuel to the letter.

6. There are well known recipes for .38 Spl. and .45 ACP match loads that have been winning for a lot of years.

Old NRA Bullseye match loads:
.38 Spl. - 2.7 Bullseye + 148 grain LHBWC.
.45 ACP - 185 SWC + 4.9 grains Bullseye.
.45 ACP - 200 SWC + 3.5 Bullseye.
.45 ACP 230 FM-JRN + 6.0 Unique.

For the Ruger revolver?
Is it a .45 Colt?
If so, 8.5 Unique + a 250 Keith style LSWC will shoot very well if anything will.

Auto = Full length size them.
Revolver = You can neck size about the first 1/2" and try it. If all your chambers will accept all other chambers neck-sized cases it could help accuracy.

A firm roll-crimp will help insure consistent powder burn in revolver loads.

Taper-crimp only for auto's.

rc

 

[PO2Hammer]

I'll just add to the above.

Two big keys for me were the competition seating dies and the 10X powder measure from Redding.

In both .357 Magnum and .38 Super the seating dies gave me overnight increases in accuracy.

Then you have to choose a bullet, I always start with Hornady.

A powder that meters perfectly is important if you're not weighing each charge. That gets old real quick.

 

[PO2Hammer]

In .45 acp I had an accuracy breakthrough when I modified the Lee seating stem to fit the shoulders of the 200 grain Hornady jacketed SWC I was using.(there's an accurate bullet if I ever shot one).

 

[loadedround]

Being an old time Bullseye shooter, I have to compliment RCmodel on his great and informative post. This brings back a lot pf old memories and as a mtter of fact, I'm going to bring out my old S & W Model 52 and give it a good cleaning and shoot some 10X's from memory. He is right on!

 

[243winxb]

Colt Gold Cup Series 70 MKIV .45 ACP Eliminate End Play

The brass should be on the long side to help eliminate end play in the chamber. With cast bullets better accuracy can be achieved when the leading edge of the swc just seats into the rifling. This gives 0 end play. But a few .001" to long on oal and the action will not close. This is ok for Bullseye slow fire at 50yds, not so for timed and rapid. Plus for top accuracy the cast bullets should be weighted. I set up my oal by measuring from the brass head to the shoulder of the bullet, not the nose. This is because with cast bullets the distance between the nose and the shoulder can change with the alloy mix used. Its hard to beat the accuracy of factory loaded match 45acp swc jacketed ammo. But if you buy the best components/bullets it can be done. The carbide sizing die i have been using has always oversized the brass. The bullet showing a bulge of the brass at its base when loaded. The 45acp case has a taper to it, but the carbide dies just dont take this into consideration. Makes for a sloppy fit in most chambers. Some 45acp's you can not seat the bullet out far enough to hit the rifling. The 2 Colt Gold Cups series 70 i used you could. The Series 80 i had, the chamber/headspacing was really long, even after it came back from the factory. The only old Gold Cups to buy for accuracy IMO are the ones with the serial number starting with N70466XX, when the N70 was moved to the back on the serial number, accuracy and fitting not so good. The trigger on the series 80, really bad.

[/URL][/IMG] Click pic to enlarge.

 

[Slamfire]

Bench rest ammo techniques produce great results in bench rest rifles.

However I cannot hold or shoot a hand gun well enough to know if bench rest ammo reloading techniques make a difference at all.

But I am skeptical.

A perfect rapid fire score at 25 yards Bullseye, well the ten ring is about 2 inches in diameter. That ain’t nothing to a rifle.

There are very few Bullseye shooters left around here, but their ammo reloading styles went the full gamet from carefully loaded ammo to very casually loaded ammo.


I would like to see someone use a Ransom rest, (or better) and show that benchrest reloading techniques with pistol ammo actually provide statistically valid accuracy improvements.

 

[loadedround]

Slamfire1...a very good point!

 

[krs]

The one thing that I used to find most important for .45 acp bullseye whooting was to weigh my bullets.

I full length sized my cases and separated them by brand name or date code.

Rcmodel's loads above are almost spot on what I used and I'd scale weigh each charge for my slow fire ammo and keep those apart from rapid and timed fire ammo.

 

[rcmodel]

I would like to see someone use a Ransom rest,

BTDT.

We tested every National Match gun we built in a Ransom Rest when I gunsmithed for 5th. Inf. AMU back in the day.

GI Match ammo would shoot one ragged hole at 50 yards when a newly built gun was up to snuff.

GI ball would shoot about twice as large a group.

Handloaded wad-cutter would do as well as the Match factory loads. But only if you were careful with sorting out all the wrinkled cast bullets first.

Cast bullet weight discrepancies didn't have any effect that I could tell, as long as there were no off-center voids or wrinkles.

The top shooters would certainly have shot lower scores without the match ammo advantage.

rc

 

[Slamfire]

GI Match ammo would shoot one ragged hole at 50 yards when a newly built gun was up to snuff.

GI ball would shoot about twice as large a group.

Obviously there was a difference to the ammunition.

Maybe someone who worked at the factory could tell us what the factory did different between ball ammo and match ammo.

With rifle ammo, "Mexican match" was a quick way to produce better shooting ammo. You took the GI 174 FMJBT out of your LC Match and put in a 168 SMK. Everything else stayed the same. Same case, same charge, same primer. The difference between bullet quality was very telling, the further you went out.

I totally agree with anyone who says that bullet quality is critical to good accuracy, and a primary varible.

 

[Gewehr98]

Focus on the bullet.

Case trimming for autoloading pistols?

I haven't done it in tens of thousands of my reloaded rounds, through IPSC/USPSA, IDPA, IHMSA, Steel Challenge, Bianchi Cup, and PPC.

My favorite .45 ACP bullet is the Hensley & Gibbs #68 200gr SWC.

My match loads looks similar to 243winxb's photos above, with the bullet shoulder seated out just a smidgen from the case mouth, held in place with a moderate taper crimp. Mine get fed through Kart NM barrels, so I rely more on the bullet shoulder controlling headspace than the case mouth.

I don't do any benchrest-style case prep for my match pistol loads, be they .45 ACP for my 1911s, or .38 Spl flush-seated wadcutters for my S&W Model 52 or S&W PPC/Steel Challenge race revolver. The cases and bullets get visually inspected, then run throught the Dillon presses. Accuracy is just as good as, if not better than, factory match. I've done benchrest-style case prep on a whim, and found it offered no advantages whatsoever over my current techniques. YMMV, of course, but I'd focus on the consistency of the bullets, segregating brass by headstamp, and a uniform powder measure/thrower.