Acceptable bullet diameter tolerence
- Thread starter horseman1
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LiveLife
Member
horseman1, post your need in the PIF thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=698208
You never know, someone/machinist may have a spare micrometer they don't need and your Christmas may come sooner in September.
If I had a spare micrometer, I would PIF to you but only have two spare dial calipers that I plan to PIF on the PIF threads.
You never know, someone/machinist may have a spare micrometer they don't need and your Christmas may come sooner in September.
If I had a spare micrometer, I would PIF to you but only have two spare dial calipers that I plan to PIF on the PIF threads.
LiveLife
Member
PIF them to blarby, he'll like them for his new G23 (yeah, he finally went to the Glock side ... 
).
He's has all the bullet sizing setup including the .401" sizer I PIF to him for the "Partnership for powdercoating" thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=753510
).He's has all the bullet sizing setup including the .401" sizer I PIF to him for the "Partnership for powdercoating" thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=753510
LiveLife
Member
OK, Merry Christmas horseman1,
I will PIF to you HF mechanical 1" micrometer with .0001" reading - http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-inch-range-digital-micrometer-895.html
Here are some pertinent reviews:
I will PIF to you HF mechanical 1" micrometer with .0001" reading - http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-inch-range-digital-micrometer-895.html
Here are some pertinent reviews:
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LiveLife
Member
Well, blarby running those oversized bullets through .401" sizer should fix them for his Glock 23.
Micrometer is ordered to be shipped to you.
Merry early Christmas in September!
Micrometer is ordered to be shipped to you.
Merry early Christmas in September!
LiveLife
Member
I had a thought and asked blarby if he could send me 5 of each .401" resized and unsized bullets to test in my Lone Wolf barrels.
If .401" resized bullets work fine in the tighter chambered Lone Wolf barrels, then we would definitely get confirmation.
If .401" resized bullets work fine in the tighter chambered Lone Wolf barrels, then we would definitely get confirmation.
blarby
Member
Cant wait to get these and put this one to "rest" for horseman.
I think the initial bullet measurements are going to tell us the most, as that glock would probably eat rocks if they came up the feed ramp.
Will give me a good excuse to get the sizing and casting equipment out and get those "partnership" bullets I promised out to everyone. Long summer, very hot. Now, its hunting season :/ I'll get 'em done.
FWIW - This is/will be a common problem BDS and I anticipated with the roll out of commercially available coated bullets.
What I expect ( and what BDS has acknowledged already) is just an over coated bullet.
Given the various things that can alter the thickness of coating results, companies looking to push the margins into profitability on this type of bullet by skipping the time involved in sizing after coating, through simply coating undersized bullets and praying, are in for a lot of this type of issue. Given that PC bullets can be run through even automated sizers without "lube".... I dunno on this one, I really dont.
Horsemen, just out of curiosity, are you getting PC buildup around the case mouth ?
Would look like a little wrinkle where the bullet meets the case mouth.
I think the initial bullet measurements are going to tell us the most, as that glock would probably eat rocks if they came up the feed ramp.
Will give me a good excuse to get the sizing and casting equipment out and get those "partnership" bullets I promised out to everyone. Long summer, very hot. Now, its hunting season :/ I'll get 'em done.
FWIW - This is/will be a common problem BDS and I anticipated with the roll out of commercially available coated bullets.
What I expect ( and what BDS has acknowledged already) is just an over coated bullet.
Given the various things that can alter the thickness of coating results, companies looking to push the margins into profitability on this type of bullet by skipping the time involved in sizing after coating, through simply coating undersized bullets and praying, are in for a lot of this type of issue. Given that PC bullets can be run through even automated sizers without "lube".... I dunno on this one, I really dont.
Horsemen, just out of curiosity, are you getting PC buildup around the case mouth ?
Would look like a little wrinkle where the bullet meets the case mouth.
LiveLife
Member
Good post.
That's why I suggested OP contact the bullet manufacturer first, to let them know that something may have gone wrong and perhaps give them a chance to make it right and possibly enhance their QC process or deal with some employees, if it was human error.
Look forward to what you find.
That's why I suggested OP contact the bullet manufacturer first, to let them know that something may have gone wrong and perhaps give them a chance to make it right and possibly enhance their QC process or deal with some employees, if it was human error.
Look forward to what you find.
No, I dont think so. When I started loading these, I went to some trouble to chamfer and bell the case just enough so this doesn't happen. I have loaded plated and lead bullets before and seen this occur.
Thanks for being willing to play with them, blarby. The bullets are still at the house but I expect to be able to ship them on Wednesday. Will let you know when they go out.
blarby
Member
Awesome.
Small note : chamfering semiautomatic brass can cause problems of its own, as the cartridge headspacez on the case mouth. A little extra flare certainly helps on the PC bullets though.
Small note : chamfering semiautomatic brass can cause problems of its own, as the cartridge headspacez on the case mouth. A little extra flare certainly helps on the PC bullets though.
blarby
Member
Oh boy, put to rest it is.
Suffice to say, I think we found the problem.
Suffice to say, I think we found the problem.
RealGun
Member
Getting a bullet sizing rig is not very costly. I have had issues with Lasercast being oversize in more than one caliber. I resize them and relube. They might work without that, but to do so would not be consistent with my notion of reloading.
blarby
Member
No worries !
If you are unable to solve a problem yourself, there is nothing wrong with involving other folks to try and find a solution. In this subforums case, its pretty much why we're all here! As to aggravation, meh. Kinda fun to actually be able to point to a problem, easy fix it, and move on. While it won't solve the myriad of other issues we uncovered, it will at least allow a usable bullet for you.
To directly answer the question : Sizing tolerance should be less than a span of .001 to .005 These are ammunition projectiles, not superballs. .001 to .002 oversize for borefit ? Sure. But, it must be consistent. .398 ( ya, i found one of those this morning just now ! ) to .4055 is bound to cause issue in almost any chamber I can imagine.
As relates to this issue, the problem is that the bullets are not sized. If they were sized, apparently they used a round cheesegrater, to limited and mostly harmful effect.
I'm going to size them and send them back to you, so that you can plink with them.
For those of you new to buying "coated" bullets for reloading, please verify that your bullets are the correct diameter before serious testing. If they are not, please contact the manufacturer. While a little undersized or a few bullets that aren't up to snuff are usual in bulk projectiles, seating a .4055 bullet into a max pressure load in .40 ( or .005 oversize in any other caliber, for that matter) unknowingly could be a serious safety issue- not just an accuracy/aesthetics issue.
In this case, they will be sized to .401. In my testing of PC, this means that they will springback to .4015. However, these are coated with a different material, and that may not hold true. They will all be sized today along with the last of the PC I'm doing this year, and I will measure them for springback before I pack and ship them to you.
As we discussed, the 13 I loaded and fired yesterday after sizing worked fine in the only 40 cal weapon I have- the glock. I fired the first 6 in slow order to observe function, and then mag dumped the rest in an effort to force a malfunction- none occured. But hey, thats only 13 rounds. Still sounds better than the results you had !
In closing, I'd recommend that you closely measure your completed ammunition pieces and compare them to SAAMI specifications. Given your new tools I'd recommend it for all of the types you shoot for awhile- not just the .40. You'll get a better understanding of the "work" you are doing, its effect on that work, and the result of that work in your shooting.
Whenever I make ammunition that won't "run", I invariably find pieces that are out of spec. Its always a game of tolerances : small enough so that the ammo runs flawlessly, yet large enough that the tools used can function reliably and the loose nut behind the wheel doesn't pull his hair out in pursuit of an unattainable perfection.
Nope, its not. $20 for a lee push-through sizer in nearly every size imaginable.
If you are unable to solve a problem yourself, there is nothing wrong with involving other folks to try and find a solution. In this subforums case, its pretty much why we're all here! As to aggravation, meh. Kinda fun to actually be able to point to a problem, easy fix it, and move on. While it won't solve the myriad of other issues we uncovered, it will at least allow a usable bullet for you.
To directly answer the question : Sizing tolerance should be less than a span of .001 to .005 These are ammunition projectiles, not superballs. .001 to .002 oversize for borefit ? Sure. But, it must be consistent. .398 ( ya, i found one of those this morning just now ! ) to .4055 is bound to cause issue in almost any chamber I can imagine.
As relates to this issue, the problem is that the bullets are not sized. If they were sized, apparently they used a round cheesegrater, to limited and mostly harmful effect.
I'm going to size them and send them back to you, so that you can plink with them.
For those of you new to buying "coated" bullets for reloading, please verify that your bullets are the correct diameter before serious testing. If they are not, please contact the manufacturer. While a little undersized or a few bullets that aren't up to snuff are usual in bulk projectiles, seating a .4055 bullet into a max pressure load in .40 ( or .005 oversize in any other caliber, for that matter) unknowingly could be a serious safety issue- not just an accuracy/aesthetics issue.
In this case, they will be sized to .401. In my testing of PC, this means that they will springback to .4015. However, these are coated with a different material, and that may not hold true. They will all be sized today along with the last of the PC I'm doing this year, and I will measure them for springback before I pack and ship them to you.
As we discussed, the 13 I loaded and fired yesterday after sizing worked fine in the only 40 cal weapon I have- the glock. I fired the first 6 in slow order to observe function, and then mag dumped the rest in an effort to force a malfunction- none occured. But hey, thats only 13 rounds. Still sounds better than the results you had !
In closing, I'd recommend that you closely measure your completed ammunition pieces and compare them to SAAMI specifications. Given your new tools
I'd recommend it for all of the types you shoot for awhile- not just the .40. You'll get a better understanding of the "work" you are doing, its effect on that work, and the result of that work in your shooting.Whenever I make ammunition that won't "run", I invariably find pieces that are out of spec. Its always a game of tolerances : small enough so that the ammo runs flawlessly, yet large enough that the tools used can function reliably and the loose nut behind the wheel doesn't pull his hair out in pursuit of an unattainable perfection.
Nope, its not. $20 for a lee push-through sizer in nearly every size imaginable.
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LiveLife
Member
Thanks to blarby, the "root cause" of the finished rounds not fully chambering was determined to be unsized coated bullets.
As I suggested in post #23, the manufacturer/vendor should have been contacted about these bullets and perhaps allowed the manufacturer/vendor to remedy the problem of out-of-spec/unsized coated bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9606166#post9606166
I won't mention the name of the manufacturer/vendor, but it is a large commercial bullet caster. BTW, the bullets were coated on top/side only as the bases were left uncoated.
This just goes to show that when we run into reloading issues, we need to conduct a thorough "root cause" analysis without assumptions and notions (and you know the saying about assumptions.). Approaching reloading problems with objectivity and "open" mind will allow us to identify the problems more clearly and quickly to resolve them to completion.
Thanks again blarby!
As I suggested in post #23, the manufacturer/vendor should have been contacted about these bullets and perhaps allowed the manufacturer/vendor to remedy the problem of out-of-spec/unsized coated bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9606166#post9606166
I won't mention the name of the manufacturer/vendor, but it is a large commercial bullet caster. BTW, the bullets were coated on top/side only as the bases were left uncoated.
This just goes to show that when we run into reloading issues, we need to conduct a thorough "root cause" analysis without assumptions and notions (and you know the saying about assumptions.
). Approaching reloading problems with objectivity and "open" mind will allow us to identify the problems more clearly and quickly to resolve them to completion.Thanks again blarby!
blarby
Member
I try my best !
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