Acceptable offhand group for hunting

[Bfh_auto]

What size group do you shoot offhand at 100 yards?
My wife decided she wants to shoot her Marlin 30-30 standing.
Last range session at 25 yards she shot 4 inches with several touching.
This session she shot at 50 yards and managed 2.5 inches in a circular group.
These are 10-20 shot groups.

I generally shoot 2-3" at 100. But feel like I might be expecting too much from her. At the same time she can shoot clay pigeons at 300 yards every time using hold over from a bench.

 

[Hugger-4641]

With iron sights, if you can put them all in an 8" pie plate, you'll probably be fine.
With a scope, you should be able to get 6" group or less. I've been doing this a few years, but I generally get about 3" group at 100yds with any of my scoped rifles when I sling up.

 

[troy fairweather]

Pie plate

 

[Bfh_auto]

With iron sights, if you can put them all in an 8" pie plate, you'll probably be fine.
With a scope, you should be able to get 6" group or less. I've been doing this a few years, but I generally get about 3" group at 100yds with any of my scoped rifles when I sling up.

With irons have you noticed it's easier to hit 5 clay pigeons or pop cans than shoot a group that's 4 inches on a paper target?
I was thinking 4" or less at 100. I figured it means her ability to shoot can be cut in half by adrenaline and still be inside a kill zone.

Pie plate

SE Missouri deer would fit inside a pie plate

 

[Hugger-4641]

With irons have you noticed it's easier to hit 5 clay pigeons or pop cans than shoot a group that's 4 inches on a paper target?
I was thinking 4" or less at 100. I figured it means her ability to shoot can be cut in half by adrenaline and still be inside a kill zone.

SE Missouri deer would fit inside a pie plate

Yes, another member and I were shooting his .357 lever gun recently and groups on a target got better when we propped up a wrist sized piece of limb against the target and aimed at the stick.
I've noticed the same with pistols. I may struggle to keep a 6" group on a paper target at 30yds with my G19, but I can pick off a line of clay pigeons one at a time consistently. I don't know why.

 

[brewer12345]

This is the fourth season in a row I will be hunting a muzzleloader tag. In my state that means open sights and I use a percussion rifle with a round ball. Not cutting edge stuff. Since I seem to mostly get a shot when I am moving or standing, a couple years ago I started practicing my "notice a deer" drill. Start at 80 or 90 yards from the target and walk toward it. I arbitrarily tell myself "there is a deer!" and practice raising the rifle and firing. I'd guess my shots average 70 or 75 yards, but they are unsupported and I try to take the shot within 5 seconds of "noticing the deer." I am trying to mimic what tends to happen in the field. With a little practice I am making a 6 inch group. Not real impressive compared to the inch or so I know these rifles can do, but it has proven effective in the field. The last two deer I made unsupported shots at 65 and 70 yards without a fuss. Not exactly long range sniper stuff, but with poor eyesight and long, heavy barrels, I am happy.

I'd suggest she practice in realistic shooting positions at typical shot ranges.

 

[Bfh_auto]

This is the fourth season in a row I will be hunting a muzzleloader tag. In my state that means open sights and I use a percussion rifle with a round ball. Not cutting edge stuff. Since I seem to mostly get a shot when I am moving or standing, a couple years ago I started practicing my "notice a deer" drill. Start at 80 or 90 yards from the target and walk toward it. I arbitrarily tell myself "there is a deer!" and practice raising the rifle and firing. I'd guess my shots average 70 or 75 yards, but they are unsupported and I try to take the shot within 5 seconds of "noticing the deer." I am trying to mimic what tends to happen in the field. With a little practice I am making a 6 inch group. Not real impressive compared to the inch or so I know these rifles can do, but it has proven effective in the field. The last two deer I made unsupported shots at 65 and 70 yards without a fuss. Not exactly long range sniper stuff, but with poor eyesight and long, heavy barrels, I am happy.

I'd suggest she practice in realistic shooting positions at typical shot ranges.

She mostly hunts from a stand were shots are less than 100 yards from a simulated tree stand she can break clays at more than twice that distance.
It's her first year of truly hunting by herself. Usually I am in the woods nearby. But she is being a stay at home mom now. So I will be at work part of the season. Thankfully my work is in the woods so I can still hunt.

 

[Wolfshead]

Being a former teacher, you’ll get what you give.
In other words if you don’t expect her to be able to shoot 100 yards then she most likely won’t.
Her beliefs are formed by your expectations.
Help her to be a high achiever.
I agree with pie plate. If you’re not sure about the added excitement then have her jog 50 yards and back and then shoot the 100 yds this will simulate the heartbeat and breathing of being excited.
If can’t run then do some calisthenics, something to get the breathing and heart rate up.
I’m sure by what you’ve said that she won’t even need this.

 

[JFrank]

At 90 yards I missed two out of three shots on a black bear.
Last one got him

 

[brewer12345]

She mostly hunts from a stand were shots are less than 100 yards from a simulated tree stand she can break clays at more than twice that distance.
It's her first year of truly hunting by herself. Usually I am in the woods nearby. But she is being a stay at home mom now. So I will be at work part of the season. Thankfully my work is in the woods so I can still hunt.

Sounds like she is ready. Any tendency to buck fever?

 

[edwardware]

Acceptable offhand group for hunting

For deer, a 6" plate, at whatever range, rest, light, and weather you consider the worst case.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Sounds like she is ready. Any tendency to buck fever?

Not really. She's been running 1 shot one kill since she started hunting with me 5 years ago.

 

[brewer12345]

Not really. She's been running 1 shot one kill since she started hunting with me 5 years ago.

Sounds like she will do fine.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Acceptable offhand group for hunting
What size group do you shoot offhand at 100 yards?
My wife decided she wants to shoot her Marlin 30-30 standing.
Last range session at 25 yards she shot 4 inches with several touching.
This session she shot at 50 yards and managed 2.5 inches in a circular group.
These are 10-20 shot groups.

I generally shoot 2-3" at 100. But feel like I might be expecting too much from her. At the same time she can shoot clay pigeons at 300 yards every time using hold over from a bench.

I think you are asking this question from the wrong direction. It isn't what group size is acceptable for offhand hunting, but what group size is acceptable for making ethical kills and ethical kills don't care if you are shooting off a bench, sticks or hand.

Okay, so the last range session she shot 4" at 25 yards with some touching. Anyway you look at it, that is 12 MOA. The ones touching (I assume are good) do matter so much as the ones that are 4" away.

2.5" at 50 yards, or 5 MOA isn't too terrible. Limit her to 40 yards and you should have nothing to worry about that IF she can actually shoot that well. She got better between the two range sessions, so the question is whether or not she is just that inconsistent overall (what will the next session bring?) or if she has made some dramatic improvement that will stay with her.

If she shoots fine off of a rest, why not have her use shooting sticks?

 

[Bfh_auto]

I think you are asking this question from the wrong direction. It isn't what group size is acceptable for offhand hunting, but what group size is acceptable for making ethical kills and ethical kills don't care if you are shooting off a bench, sticks or hand.

Okay, so the last range session she shot 4" at 25 yards with some touching. Anyway you look at it, that is 12 MOA. The ones touching (I assume are good) do matter so much as the ones that are 4" away.

2.5" at 50 yards, or 5 MOA isn't too terrible. Limit her to 40 yards and you should have nothing to worry about that IF she can actually shoot that well. She got better between the two range sessions, so the question is whether or not she is just that inconsistent overall (what will the next session bring?) or if she has made some dramatic improvement that will stay with her.

If she shoots fine off of a rest, why not have her use shooting sticks?

The first session was her first time shooting in about a year and a half.
Before our boys were born she was able to shoot 20 clay pigeons in a row at 300 yards in varying winds. Granted that's 4 inches at 300.
I've thought about sticks. But she wants to get better at offhand. Not so much shoot game offhand.

 

[JFrank]

The first session was her first time shooting in about a year and a half.
Before our boys were born she was able to shoot 20 clay pigeons in a row at 300 yards in varying winds. Granted that's 4 inches at 300.
I've thought about sticks. But she wants to get better at offhand. Not so much shoot game offhand.

OFF HAND ??

 

[AK Hunter]

I try for a fist sized group at 100 with any hunting gun I shoot. A fist size is a good heart shot on a deer & when you hit the heart you almost always get a double lung too. So it's not going far.

 

[Bfh_auto]

OFF HAND ??

No a simulated tree stand.

 

[Patocazador]

4" to 6" will keep her in the game's vitals.

I never plan to shoot offhand but sometimes you are presented with no other choice. My best ever standing offhand was killing a buck at 160 yards 2 years ago. I used a scope and the deer was walking into a thicket. The hardest part was finding where he walked in after I shot. Luckily, he only went 15 yards and the blood trail was plentiful.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I've thought about sticks. But she wants to get better at offhand. Not so much shoot game offhand.

Now I am totally confused. The thread's title is literally about hunting offhanded, which means the taking of game offhanded. Now you are saying that she doesn't want to shoot game offhand? Why did you mention hunting and post this in a hunting second if not about hunting offhanded??

Okay, in for a penny, in for a pound, what is a simulated tree stand? You have some sort of shooting box or table where she can sit and gently sway with the wind for a nice day or really play the breeze on windy days? I know my 14' tall tree stand had up to an inch of lateral movement during light wind days, but on windy days, there could 2-4" of lateral movement.

 

[WisBorn]

Minute of paper plate offhand with open sights.

 

[JFrank]

We tried simulating a hurried , raise your rifle and shoot off hand in practice snd quite frankly the groups were huge at even 50 to 70 yards, I’m best with something to brace against or shooting sticks.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Now I am totally confused. The thread's title is literally about hunting offhanded, which means the taking of game offhanded. Now you are saying that she doesn't want to shoot game offhand? Why did you mention hunting and post this in a hunting second if not about hunting offhanded??

Okay, in for a penny, in for a pound, what is a simulated tree stand? You have some sort of shooting box or table where she can sit and gently sway with the wind for a nice day or really play the breeze on windy days? I know my 14' tall tree stand had up to an inch of lateral movement during light wind days, but on windy days, there could 2-4" of lateral movement.

To clarify. It new hunting stands are far enough in that you have a decent chance at seeing deer. Her main goal isn't too slip around and hunt that way.
In my farm I made an unstable bench with a rail around it. It didn't away as much as a true tree stand. But it was as close as I could get.

 

[Bfh_auto]

We tried simulating a hurried , raise your rifle and shoot off hand in practice snd quite frankly the groups were huge at even 50 to 70 yards, I’m best with something to brace against or shooting sticks.

My youngest brother and I tried to race to break a milk jug at 100 yards. It was 10 yards, stop and shoot. It took 3 or 4 tries before it died. I don't bother taking rushed shots on deer. I hate tracking.
Like you in best with sticks. Preferably sticks and plenty of time.

 

[Bfh_auto]

4" to 6" will keep her in the game's vitals.

I never plan to shoot offhand but sometimes you are presented with no other choice. My best ever standing offhand was killing a buck at 160 yards 2 years ago. I used a scope and the deer was walking into a thicket. The hardest part was finding where he walked in after I shot. Luckily, he only went 15 yards and the blood trail was plentiful.

That takes more than luck. My best was 130 on a doe that was looking at me. I took long enough that she got 3 mouthfuls before I shot. It was in a field and I was in the middle of it. I used the patch of her throat as an aim point.