Accident at Local Range

[lpsharp88]

There was an accident at my local range (Target World in Cincinnati area) yesterday, no one was seriously hurt. Short story, customer was loading his SKS, and when the round was chambering, it apparently stove piped. When the bolt hit it, it blew up, hitting the people in that booth with shrapnel. I'll put the range's statement from their Facebook page below, along with a picture or two and a news link, also from their Facebook page, below.

Their statement:
As many of you may have heard, a customer was injured due to a rifle malfunction earlier today at Target World. The rumors have run rampid and our detractors would love to make the situation more than what it really is. We have provided a link to a local TV news story and will add a report of the incident and picture of the casing that exploded in the rifle's ejection port. In summary, the incident involved two customers sharing the same shooting booth where one of the customers was struck by shrapnel from a cartridge that exploded out of the side of the other customer's rifle ejection port (not out of out the barrel). This is a very uncommon occurrence that could not have been anticipated. The customers appear to have followed all safety rules and there was no danger presented to other customers using the facility.

Link they used on their Facebook page:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...njured-in-accidental-shooting-at-target-world

In all of my military and civilian shooting, I've never seen or heard of anything like this. Have any of you THR members seen or experienced this?

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Odd considering the primer doesn't look deformed.

 

[N003k]

So...the SKS firing pin managed to pierce the case wall and create enough of a spark to ignite powder? I knew the guns were tough but jeez...

Well, at least everyone involved is doing alright!

 

[MEHavey]

I've never seen (or heard) of anything like what appears to be impact-related ignition....

-- UNLESS --

...the steel case was pierced/cut by the rifle's sharp/steel chamber edges and 'sparked' while caving in.
[Hit one hammer's head against another's and what do you get? Sparks (aka tiny burning metal slivers)]

 

[lpsharp88]

I've never seen (or heard) of anything like what appears to be impact-related ignition....



-- UNLESS --



...the steel case was pierced/cut by the rifles's sharp chamber edges and 'sparked' in doing so.

That's what I was thinking happened. It never crossed my mind that a bolt attempting to chamber a round would hit with enough force to do that though

 

[Salmoneye]

High primer that was 'scraped' as it was lifted into battery, thus firing out of battery...

The primer was then reset when the case was forced rearward...

Just a WAG...

 

[evan price]

IMHO, there was already a cartridge in the chamber. The shooter topped off the magazine with a stripper clip then let the bolt fly forward. The bolt stripped the top round off the magazine and tried to chamber it, but the bullet tip hit the primer of the round that was in the chamber. The chambered round went off and the round behind it was destroyed by the chambered round forcing it against the bolt, and that's the casing in the picture. Primer is not fired, and there is a mention of unburnt powder in the gun and on the table.

That's how I see this happening, anyway.

 

[wally]

^^^ This.

The one negative of "pointed" bullets and why they aren't used with tubular magazines where recoil could sent one off

 

[J-Bar]

I think Evan Price's analysis makes the most sense. If a round is outside the chamber, I doubt the pressure could go high enough to rupture the case...it's like throwing a round in the campfire. A stupid thing to do, but when it pops off, the case goes backwards, intact, and the bullet goes a bit forward. The ruptured case indicates it encountered a lot more force than it would have experienced just popping off outside the chamber.

 

[Cee Zee]

rampid

Did they really use this "word" instead of "rampant"? We are losing the language friends. I blame phonics or maybe fawnknicks.

I don't think we should just guess what happened here. Maybe there was a round in the chamber but how would we know? Guns are dangerous things and even when you do everything right sometimes things can go wrong. I don't think we should gloss over that by blaming user error when we don't know if that's what happened. Assuming facts not in evidence is what the gun grabbers do. I don't think we should follow their lead.

 

[OilyPablo]

Rampid made be chuckle. Glad no one was hurt.

Immediately upon viewing the photo, I thought the cartridge "in front" of this one exploded....

 

[lpsharp88]

I agree that the explanation seems kind of suspect, but I was not there at the time of the accident. I went that evening to try out my first batch of reloads, and had planned to go prior to hearing about the incident. There definitely was an increased safety presence in the actual range (it's attached to the store). There were 2 RSO's in the pistol range, and that's the first time (that I remember) that there were actual RSOs in the range itself. Most times, the only range person is the person at the desk where you pay for time and all that.

 

[Tommygunn]

rampid

Did they really use this "word" instead of "rampant"? We are losing the language friends. I blame phonics or maybe fawnknicks.

Thank you Cee Zee. Seeing the word I KNEW it was wrong but the visual discontinuity prompted a brain freeze and I was unable to recall the real word.
Guys .... don't get older ... it sucks .....

 

[243winxb]

Rock Island 1911 in 9mm.

Have any of you THR members seen or experienced this?

Click for larger photo or click link for more photos and story.

[/URL][/IMG] http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=707607 it was the top round in the magazine and it went off sliding into battery. It appears that the bottom of the slide hit the primer. The SKS case head shows heavy impact, setting off the round. But did the primer fire? Pulling the primer might be interesting. I would guess the primer is like new.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

IMHO, there was already a cartridge in the chamber. The shooter topped off the magazine with a stripper clip then let the bolt fly forward. The bolt stripped the top round off the magazine and tried to chamber it, but the bullet tip hit the primer of the round that was in the chamber. The chambered round went off and the round behind it was destroyed by the chambered round forcing it against the bolt, and that's the casing in the picture. Primer is not fired, and there is a mention of unburnt powder in the gun and on the table.

That's how I see this happening, anyway.

If the gun the picture is the actual gun, then it was a Bubba'd SKS with the AK 30 round magazine and no way that stripper clips were loaded. As to why anyone would want this accident to happen I don't know. Keep the guns as they were designed and your chances of a problem are far less than if you go modifying it to fit your image of what it should be.

 

[Reloadron]

IMHO, there was already a cartridge in the chamber. The shooter topped off the magazine with a stripper clip then let the bolt fly forward. The bolt stripped the top round off the magazine and tried to chamber it, but the bullet tip hit the primer of the round that was in the chamber. The chambered round went off and the round behind it was destroyed by the chambered round forcing it against the bolt, and that's the casing in the picture. Primer is not fired, and there is a mention of unburnt powder in the gun and on the table.

That's how I see this happening, anyway.

That would be my guess, especially based on the comments:

According to Sgt. Scott Tamm:

> A man in his 50s was loading an SKS rifle with a clip of .762 caliber ammo.

> The gun was on a table and horizontal to ground, not pointed at anyone.

> As the slide was pulled back and released, the weapon discharged.

> The boy was there with his father. Both are friends of the gun owner.

The gun shown was file footage as they do point out "a gun similar to this one".

Fortunately no major injury.

Ron

 

[MEHavey]

If that's the case [two-cartridge theory], where are any of the
pieces/case head of the cartridge that was in the chamber?

 

[afish4570]

Similar Accident Locally several yrs. ago

Seems a shooter had a round in chamber and rounds in the magazine of the MN 1891, 762x54 rifle. When he closed bolt the FMJ bolt struck the chambered round. Shooter really messed up his left hand as it was over the top of the action. New and old shooters take heed. Teach whoever you can so that this doesn't occur. afish4570

 

[Tirod]

Well, was it a .762 or 762?

Relying on an incomplete report and anecdotal observations won't completely clear it up. The photo pretty much says it - the case didn't have a primer with firing pin impact, the damage is from the round in front of it.

The explanation of the primer getting reset won't fly because primers don't balloon back to appear as if they were never struck.

May I suggest this wasn't "accidental" at all? There is plenty of evidence it was negligent and based on a lack of awareness that firearms can be dangerous reloading with a round in the chamber already.

Was the bolt hold open operating, why didn't the round extract if it was, and why didn't the operator pick up on the loaded chamber when reloading it? Taking the incident to heart, you have to ask how many times we have done it with the same degree of concern. I sure I've glossed it over and the training I received on other firearms always assumed the chamber would be empty.

We know what happens when we assume . . .

 

[we are not amused]

There is a lot stupid speculation here, with uninformed people making unsupported charges of Negligence without enough facts to base such an opinion on.

The round apparently exploded.

Why?

Even if there was a round already chambered, and the attempt to chamber this round caused the other round to go off, and drive back, what caused this round to explode? The primer did not apparently go off, and what happened to that other round?

What evidence is there that this was an extended 30 round magazine, ( as one speculator posited) and what would that have to do with the bullet rupturing in this way?
(I own a SKS with the original 10 round mag, but have handled and loaded ones with the 30 round extended mag, hard to see how an extended mag could cause this)
Badger Arms has been posting YouTube videos of cartridges being fired outside of a gun. Sometimes the case ruptures quite violently. (see RyeOnHam YouTube video site.

I think that MEHarvey and Ipshrp88 are possibly correct, but without a lot more evidence, anything else is unwarranted speculation, as there is no evidence to support it.

What can we learn from this incident?

Guns are dangerous. Not unduly so, but a danger none the less.

Always, always where eye protection!

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Well, was it a .762 or 762?

762mm? Sounds like a great artillery round! I want one!


I agree the pics look a bit odd. But, given that none of us where there to see the actual rifle or look for other evidence, I think the range handled it well and hope the owner of the rifle takes it to a gunsmith before shooting it again.

 

[Cee Zee]

Thank you Cee Zee. Seeing the word I KNEW it was wrong but the visual discontinuity prompted a brain freeze and I was unable to recall the real word.

LOL I resemble that remark big time. I don't generally comment on misspellings and such but that one appeared to come from a source other than a poster here. I've been known to butcher a word or two myself. So I'm not being critical of anyone. I just thought it would be bad if the range used that word. I sometimes can't remember what a "3" looks like so I am in no position to criticize anyone. I just wondered if the range used that word that way.

 

[lpsharp88]

that one appeared to come from a source other than a poster here.

Just to clarify, I copied and pasted the statement directly from the range Facebook page. Any errors there are theirs haha

 

[Zerodefect]

Would someone with a SKS do a (slow) double feed for us and post pics.
The AR15's can't do this. Misses the primer. Dropped my bolt with Magpul dummy rounds. Next round stops on the bottom edge of the chambered round. And if the first round is out enough to lineup with the tip of the next round, it doesn't seem like enough force to light the primer.

So, could a bolt hack through a sideways case and spark it enough to explode? Sounds like another good reason to use brass ammo instead of steel cases.

 

[WestKentucky]

Thank you Cee Zee. Seeing the word I KNEW it was wrong but the visual discontinuity prompted a brain freeze and I was unable to recall the real word.
Guys .... don't get older ... it sucks .....

I prefer aging to the alternative. I even prefer aging to the rapture because like the old song goes "I want to go to heaven, but I don't want to go tonight"