Accurizing .40 S&W, got any secrets?

[caz223]

I have been ignoring .40 for a long time, I have 2 guns that shoot it (Kinda), a smith 610 that shoots 10mm or .40, and a sig 2340 357SIG with conversion barrels that shoot .40 or 9mm.
I got a G20L in storage, and lone wolf is now making a 6" slide for it, meaning now is the time to get the 6" 10mm, .40, and 357SIG barrels for it.
Yeah, I've been making plinking ammo, not paying attention to the finer points of making accurate ammo, just trying to make enough ammo to stay in practice. Been using plated 165, not anything special.
But recently I stumbled unto a huge cache of .40 JHP bullets for about $40/1000 and I couldn't pass it up.
I got about 5k nosler 135 grain, all for 10mm. 40 will never see these bullets.
I got about 10K 155 grain bullets for 10mm. Light and fast. Remington, I believe.
I got (In a trade.) about 1000 rounds of golden saber 165 that I'd use for .40, kinda like premium target/small game loads.
I also got about 8500 180 grain remington .40 that would work good for .40 loads. I have earmarked these for .40 loads and have not actually even opened any of the boxes.
I also got about 2000 hornady XTP 200 grain bullets that are also going to be for 10mm, so, as you can see, the bulk of my loading for the .40 is going to be with 180 grain bullets unless I have a problem with 155 grain bullets for the 10mm.
Now, for .45 and 9mm one of the accuracy secrets has been case length, .750-.754 for 9mm, and .895-.898 for .45 (Most of my .45 have tight chambers.)

What case length has been accurate for you in .40?
The plan for powder is to standardize on power pistol unless it just won't work for the application, or shows some sort of accuracy problem.
Would unique be better? I always keep some around for .45, it's the most accurate powder I've found for .45
I had been using WSF before for .40, with good results, but would like more power.
My target for these will be 180 grain bullets at about 1050 FPS, and I'll adjust for the best accuracy if necessary.

Any tricks to make power pistol + 180 grain JHPs drive tacks?
I am using a dillon 550, dillon dies, all WIN brass, have enough to accurize, and using the LEE carbide FC die for crimp.

 

[HSMITH]

One huge advancement for me loading 40 has been the Redding Competition Seating Die. One warning, once you use it you have to have more. Seriously, this thing is like crack to a reloader.

Straight seated bullets, and I mean DEAD straight, with CONSISTENT ogive-to-rifling distance means consistent ammo.

Midway had the best price on it when I bought.

Power Pistol should deliver the accuracy you are looking for, my Dillon measures throw it very consistently.

Case length hasn't made much difference for me as long as extractor tension is good.

Skip the FCD, once you use the Redding seating die you will never need it again. Sell it to someone that doesn't know any better to offset the cost of the Redding die. Crimp to .422-423" with a standard die.

Hope this helps.

 

[caz223]

Point taken, I looked into it earlier, but the cost was prohibitive to change over 10 dies at $60.00 each.
Let me guess, you have the profile crimp dies too?
Maybe I'll just try it on .40 and 9mm and see what it does for me.
I'm missing something in 9mm and .40, and it's eating at MY SOUL.

More suggestions?

 

[JSM]

I've found that the EGW undersize die to be incredible. Especially if you are going to crimp only to .422 - .423. Without the u-die you will experience fairly significant setback (up to .005" on a single rack). The die is only $20 something bucks so it won't break the bank. Something to consider.

 

[caz223]

Where would I find an undersize die?

 

[JSM]

Should have included this with the original post.

EGW inc.
48 Belmont Ave.
Quakertown Pa. 18951
(215) 538 1012 fx 1016

www.egw-guns.com

It starts out as a Lee, but EGW modifies it. Their website does not have a lot of information, but if you email them they are quick with answers.

 

[HSMITH]

I use the U-die for sizing now in my best ammo too, but never had a problem with the standard Lee sizing die. Light crimps are what kept me from ever having setback problems with the standard die. The U-die almost makes the CSD mandatory, with a case that tight seating bullets straight is miserably hard.

LOL, yeah I have a couple PCDs too.

Current 40 setup is u-die, Dillon expander/powder die, Redding CSD, and Lee seat/crimp die set to crimp only on a 550B. Zero 180 JHP, Tite-group and Winchester primers. Sub 1" at 25 yards from my STI and sub 2" from my G22, 10 shot groups rested. The G22 is a stock standard gun with about 10K rounds through it, the STI full custom with match barrel.

The cost of the CSD is high, but it is fantastic. I held off for a long time too, $60 each and Lee carbide die sets are under $20 made it kind of hard to swallow. My STI wasn't shooting a whole lot better than my G22, and I went looking for a way to get out of it what it should be capable of. I found it, cut group sizes in my STI by more than half and took almost an inch off the Glock groups.

Load your 610 ammo long, 1.250ish", seems to help in a gun with a long chamber. Charges used will be a LOT closer to 10mm charges than 40 if you want the velocity when loading long. Revolver guys around here swear by Hearthco moonclips too for serious accuracy work.

 

[caz223]

Thanks fellas, I got new stuff to try!

 

[caz223]

Well, I ordered the U dies and redding comp seater dies for .40 and 9mm.
Give me a month or 2 for the range report. (It's bloody cold here right now, there are no degrees outside. None.)

 

[HSMITH]

I am looking forward to hearing how things come out for you.

 

[bedlamite]

In my experience, 135 is too light for 10mm. You would be better off using them in the 40. I use the 135 Noslers in 40s&w with 11.5 gr of longshot for 1450fps. I would also use the 155's for 40s&w and the 180's for 10mm.

 

[caz223]

Scratches head.
Ok, I've read through the longshot thread, and I admit, I'm intrigued.
I personally haven't hot rodded .40 because I have more 10mm guns than .40s, but I'm slowly warming up to the idea.
When lone wolf comes up with their G20L 6" slide that has slide and barrel cuts for 10mm/.40/357SIG I'm getting a slide and all three KKM 6" barrels. (Already got the G20 and their G21 longslide and a KKM .45-10 conversion barrel.)

357SIG has been inherantly more accurate for me than 9mm. (The reason for the 357SIG barrel.)
I suspect I'll get some longshot with my next major powder order and try the 135 noslers+ longshot in .40 with that 6" barrel once it's done.
If the power and accuracy are there, that will be the answer for .40, in addition to lower power loads with 180 grain bullets.

I have lots of 200 grain XTP bullets stockpiled for 10mm. XTPs are enough bullet for hot 10mm, some generic JHPs just aren't.
I'm not gonna shoot low power 10mm, that's what .40 practice loads are for.
I got a couple of superstitions when it comes to accuracy.
1. Keep the case full of powder, best accuracy for me has been where the case is at least 3/4 full, up until the powder touches the base of the bullet. Best accuracy for me has been
in the middle or toward the top of the powerband. Near max loads. (Powder and bullet selection.)
2. Keep your brass length as consistant as possible, and as close as possible to the listed trim-to-length. Matching headstamps, of course.
3. Avoid the speed of sound. If the bullet leaves the barrel at over the speed of sound and drops under the speed of sound on the way to the target, it won't stabilize properly. (Bullet selection, and selecting powerband.)
180s in practice loads will be subsonic, so no problem there. (Power pistol at 1000-1050 FPS.) I think that is one reason .45 acp and .38 spl wadcutters are inherantly so accurate.
155s on the other hand, will be around 1100-1200 FPS in their powerband out of a .40, so I'll reserve them for 10mm velocity loads, where they will stay supersonic until they hit the target. I have enough accuracy problems in .40 without dropping below my desired powerband.
I could download them lower as practice .40, but why, 9mm is cheaper to load if I wanted lower power. (Even with the 147 grain JHPs I use in 9mm.)
That's my thinking on bullet weight/speed/caliber.

I shot watered down handloads for steel plate shooting, and I'm not doing it anymore. Function/accuracy and enough 'oomph' to knock down the plates on a so-so hit are mission objectives. I'm rusty now, so I gotta take my time, and can't afford misses, even near ones.

 

[bedlamite]

As far as I'm concerned, those three points aren't superstitions. The reason I suggested using the 155's for 40 is that I've had very good results with several different 155gr bullets on top of 6.1 grains of Universal Clays at 1080 fps. It's cheap to shoot, easy on the brass if you have a partially unsupported chamber, not a lot of recoil, fills the case most of the way, always makes Major, and stays under the speed of sound. Yeah, the 40 can go hotter, but I've found the 155-165gr bullets to be more consistent out of my 40's than the 180's.

I've tried several combinations under 135 in 10mm, and if it had decent velocity the accuracy wasn't there. I do remember that AA#9 gave me the best results, but I don't have my 10mm data handy. It really wasn't much better than 40s&w with Longshot, which suprised me. My 180gr 10mm loads are slightly over max book loads, and around 1300fps from my 1076.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of bottleneck auto cartridges, and the only 9's I have anymore are 9x31R. Either way, try 'em all and shoot whatever works.

 

[caz223]

That's a pretty narrow target, I didn't think about going to a faster powder, and dropping more, but it makes sense.
What's normal for factory loads in 155 for .40? 1050? Never shot a factory loaded .40. Ever. Don't even know what they're like.
I wonder if unique would get down to 155 grains at 1080 without being dirty? Would the accuracy be there?
*Scratches head some more*
I've standardized on 4 (now 5 with longshot.) powders.
In order of priority: Blue dot (10mm heavy and .357 mag light, (Maybe .41 and .44 as well.) Also as backup on 357SIG
Power pistol (9mm heavy, .40 heavy, 10mm light, .38 spl jacketed.) Also as backup on 357SIG, .357mag light, and soon maybe .41 mag lead?)
unique (.45 acp, maybe .40 155 low power?) Backup for .38 spl., .45 colt and .41 mag lead.
And a little bit of trail boss. .45 colt and .38 spl, lead only. Prolly go through one 9 oz. can in a year. Not big on cowboy shooting.
And maybe some 2400 or H110 if blue dot doesn't do as well as my old stock of ammo already loaded with H110. (.41 and .44 mag.)

OK, I'm gonna try longshot. (.40 light and maybe 357SIG?)
I'm trying to avoid complication and buy in bulk. Things are way too complicated already.
I used to have 10 powders or more just for pistols!!
Let's not even get into rifles, which tend to be pickier.

Oh man, to be a poor college student again, owning one gun, and using a lee loader kit (Yeah, the one that used a plastic hammer.) on the cold basement floor. Good times.
Now my old bones can barely operate my dillon for 2 hours. (But that's like 900 rounds of ammo now, instead of 100.) 9 times faster. Nine!