limbaughfan
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Ive heard alot of talk on here about saftey classes and marksmanship classes but are there any truley advanced classes for civilians.
Advanced classes
- Thread starter limbaughfan
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Depends on what you're interested in. Front Sight offers many different advanced courses. I've personally taken the 4-Day Advanced Tactical Handgun, and I'd say that a course like it should be darn near required learning for citizens who intend to carry a concealed weapon.
The class is run fast and intense, and there is a lot of shoot/no-shoot scenarios, in addition to advanced range drills. I would highly recommend the class if you can get out to the Vegas area to take it.
I understand that Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and Valhalla (sp?) also offer courses very similar in content (though honestly, I haven't taken them and can't directly comment on their quality of instruction). Most of these schools are located in the West, though. I don't know if Blackwater is still open to average citizens, but I suspect they're concentrated on developing contractors for their own organization.
-Nathan
The class is run fast and intense, and there is a lot of shoot/no-shoot scenarios, in addition to advanced range drills. I would highly recommend the class if you can get out to the Vegas area to take it.
I understand that Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and Valhalla (sp?) also offer courses very similar in content (though honestly, I haven't taken them and can't directly comment on their quality of instruction). Most of these schools are located in the West, though. I don't know if Blackwater is still open to average citizens, but I suspect they're concentrated on developing contractors for their own organization.
-Nathan
Well, there are a number of trainers around the country that offer "advanced" classes. Of course, what is "advanced" to one person might be elementary to another. It is a matter of perspective.
At one level you have classes like the NRA Personal Protection class, clearly a step above very basic knowledge. In my basic CCW classes we are now incorporating a lot more legal and defensive items that are beyond the basics.
You also have very focused classes for specific purposes...carbine, handgun, in the home, clearing a house, etc etc etc.
Rather than try to list many, I will list one that is very good and serves as a base for further more focused classes, and those are the Level I-II-III and IV offered by http://f-r-i.com
There are many, many other very good sources.
At one level you have classes like the NRA Personal Protection class, clearly a step above very basic knowledge. In my basic CCW classes we are now incorporating a lot more legal and defensive items that are beyond the basics.
You also have very focused classes for specific purposes...carbine, handgun, in the home, clearing a house, etc etc etc.
Rather than try to list many, I will list one that is very good and serves as a base for further more focused classes, and those are the Level I-II-III and IV offered by http://f-r-i.com
There are many, many other very good sources.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Certainly. And many of them train civilian police as well. 
I can recommend TDI http://www.tdiohio.com in southern Ohio. But there are many others.
I can recommend TDI http://www.tdiohio.com in southern Ohio. But there are many others.
ShackleMeNot
Member
What do you consider "advanced"?
El Tejon
Member
Any class that is tacticool, baby!
Plenty about, lim: Thunder Ranch, LFI, Gunsite, Awerbuck, Hackathorn, Pat Rogers, Blackwater, inter alia, ad naseum.
Plenty about, lim: Thunder Ranch, LFI, Gunsite, Awerbuck, Hackathorn, Pat Rogers, Blackwater, inter alia, ad naseum.
Snarlingiron
Member
Tac Pro Shooting Center, Mingus, Tx.
Operated by Bill Davison, formerly of the Royal Marines Special Boat Service (approximately equivalent to the Navy Seals). Has trained U.S. and British special forces as well as many police departments. He definitely knows his stuff and does a very good job of imparting it. Several of my friends have taken classes from Bill and have enormous respect for him and what he teaches. I have not yet had the privilege, but hope to join his September Basic Shotgun class.
Go here and read some of the articles about Bill and Alice Davison and Tac Pro shooting center.
Operated by Bill Davison, formerly of the Royal Marines Special Boat Service (approximately equivalent to the Navy Seals). Has trained U.S. and British special forces as well as many police departments. He definitely knows his stuff and does a very good job of imparting it. Several of my friends have taken classes from Bill and have enormous respect for him and what he teaches. I have not yet had the privilege, but hope to join his September Basic Shotgun class.
Go here and read some of the articles about Bill and Alice Davison and Tac Pro shooting center.
limbaughfan
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- Jul 13, 2006
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someone asked me what do I mean by advanced,I mean things like room clearing and shoot not shoot senarios.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
How about this:
Worry about learning the basics of marksmanship first.
Then worry about stuff like room clearing.
Justin nailed it. First learn the basics. It doesn't sound like you've taken any intro classes yet, because if you have, you will already be familiar with how firearms training classes are set up to increase in levels of difficulty as you progress.
There are plenty of "advanced" training classes available throughout the USA, but the typical way you qualify for the higher levels is to have passed the prior classes. (ie. if you want to take a Level III room-clearing session, you will need to have passed Levels I & II). Room clearing and shoot-no-shoot scenarios usually is force on force training involving simunitions. This is pretty advanced and usually reserved for those who had prior training and demonstrated strong safety habits.
Here's an alternative, join your local IDPA group. IDPA meets may include shoot-no-shoot identification scenarios, and tactical course runs.
There are plenty of "advanced" training classes available throughout the USA, but the typical way you qualify for the higher levels is to have passed the prior classes. (ie. if you want to take a Level III room-clearing session, you will need to have passed Levels I & II). Room clearing and shoot-no-shoot scenarios usually is force on force training involving simunitions. This is pretty advanced and usually reserved for those who had prior training and demonstrated strong safety habits.
Here's an alternative, join your local IDPA group. IDPA meets may include shoot-no-shoot identification scenarios, and tactical course runs.
Most so-called advanced classes simply take the basics and refine them. Speed them up. Make them smoother. There really arn't a lot of hidden, secret techniques that only the blackbelts know.
If you take something like Gunsite's 250 orFrontsight's 4-Day Defensive Handgun and then practice faithfullly, you will have all the information you need. By practice faithfully, I mean dry practice daily. Range practice is of secondary importance.
I used to have a sign posted on my locker at work that read: "Excellence is the basics, mastered"
I am taking 4-Day Advanced Tactical Handgun at Frontsight in September. I took the last 4-Day Handgun Combat Master Prep class and it was awsome.
If you take something like Gunsite's 250 orFrontsight's 4-Day Defensive Handgun and then practice faithfullly, you will have all the information you need. By practice faithfully, I mean dry practice daily. Range practice is of secondary importance.
I used to have a sign posted on my locker at work that read: "Excellence is the basics, mastered"
I am taking 4-Day Advanced Tactical Handgun at Frontsight in September. I took the last 4-Day Handgun Combat Master Prep class and it was awsome.
Rob Pincus
Member
LB Fan,
You might find what you are looking for in our Combat Focus Shooting Program. This course teaches defensive pistol use, not mechanical marksmanship skills with tactical terminology. It is the same fundamental course that we teach to military special operations personnel.
see the schedule at www.valhallatraining.com....
-RJP
You might find what you are looking for in our Combat Focus Shooting Program. This course teaches defensive pistol use, not mechanical marksmanship skills with tactical terminology. It is the same fundamental course that we teach to military special operations personnel.
see the schedule at www.valhallatraining.com....
-RJP
There are plenty of folks that host or travel to put on classes that go beyond basic safe gun handling and shooting. This is the foundation that any shooter should build their skills on.
I've attended classes put on here in Knoxville by THR's own Paul Gomez and Robin Brown. Both taught material that could be considered advanced shooting because it went beyond static standup weapons use. Robin's course was handgun point shooting and had us progressing from static stand up shooting to shooting on the move at multiple targets and Paul gave an AK class that progressed from static stand up shooting to shooting on the move at multiple targets and a tactical wound class with partner rescue shooting that was very dynamic.
Paul also works with "SouthNarc" to put on classes around the country. I just took the PUC and missed taking the Extreme Close Quarters Combatives class this weekend here.
Things went so well in April that Robin is coming back here in October to conduct his pistol class again. Paul's almost certainly returning later this year also.
All of these classes were filled with civilians.
I've attended classes put on here in Knoxville by THR's own Paul Gomez and Robin Brown. Both taught material that could be considered advanced shooting because it went beyond static standup weapons use. Robin's course was handgun point shooting and had us progressing from static stand up shooting to shooting on the move at multiple targets and Paul gave an AK class that progressed from static stand up shooting to shooting on the move at multiple targets and a tactical wound class with partner rescue shooting that was very dynamic.
Paul also works with "SouthNarc" to put on classes around the country. I just took the PUC and missed taking the Extreme Close Quarters Combatives class this weekend here.
Things went so well in April that Robin is coming back here in October to conduct his pistol class again. Paul's almost certainly returning later this year also.
All of these classes were filled with civilians.
Note that "advanced" is sort of a meaningless term of art in the gunskool world. It serves to distinguish from "basic" classes, but doesn't tell much else. Best way to determine whether the particular skillsets you seek are included in a given course is to contact the instructor in advance and/or review the course outline.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Right now we are fortunate in that there are a lot of places offering good instruction. You really have to master the fundamentals before you will get very far learning tactics. It isn't impossible; but generally it is hard to get much out of a class teaching tactics when your brain is still in the "Draw, rotate pistol towards target, flip off safety as I index into the target, finger off the trigger until I am ready to shoot, roll elbows in" mode. You have to get to the point where those things happen automatically without much additional input - this frees up CPU time to think about all the other things you have to be concerned about.
I hope we are answering your questions.
There are many great shooting schools around the country. The reason I mentioned the ones I did are simply because those are the ones that I have attended.
One problem you might run into with taking a class like you mention is that most schools will have required you to take the basic type class first. For example, we can look at the Frontsight 2 Day Tactical Scenarios class. This seems to be exactly what you are looking for:
"This course is focused on force-on-force training in our tactical simulators. In this course you are free to use all the weapon systems (handgun, shotgun, and rifle) in which you have received a Graduate certificate. After a brief live-fire tactical review, you will engage the instructors and other students using Simunitions® (real guns that shoot paint bullets) weapons and safety equipment. This is as close to real gunfighting as anyone can make it without getting physically hurt. Following each scenario, a tactical debrief will address the positive actions of the students and constructively critique those areas needing improvement. Tactical simulators will also address multiple adversaries in low-light and night environments."
Note however that second sentence: You need to have received at least a graduate certificate in one or more weapons systems as a prerequisite:
"Prerequisite Class(s): Prior to attending this course you must attend and complete the 4 Day Defensive Handgun, 4-Day Tactical Shotgun, or 4-Day Practical Rifle course with a Graduate Certificate."
They want you to know and understand the fundamentals of defensive shooting and weapons handling before you take it to the next level of using those skills under pressure in a defensive type senario.
There are many great shooting schools around the country. The reason I mentioned the ones I did are simply because those are the ones that I have attended.
One problem you might run into with taking a class like you mention is that most schools will have required you to take the basic type class first. For example, we can look at the Frontsight 2 Day Tactical Scenarios class. This seems to be exactly what you are looking for:
"This course is focused on force-on-force training in our tactical simulators. In this course you are free to use all the weapon systems (handgun, shotgun, and rifle) in which you have received a Graduate certificate. After a brief live-fire tactical review, you will engage the instructors and other students using Simunitions® (real guns that shoot paint bullets) weapons and safety equipment. This is as close to real gunfighting as anyone can make it without getting physically hurt. Following each scenario, a tactical debrief will address the positive actions of the students and constructively critique those areas needing improvement. Tactical simulators will also address multiple adversaries in low-light and night environments."
Note however that second sentence: You need to have received at least a graduate certificate in one or more weapons systems as a prerequisite:
"Prerequisite Class(s): Prior to attending this course you must attend and complete the 4 Day Defensive Handgun, 4-Day Tactical Shotgun, or 4-Day Practical Rifle course with a Graduate Certificate."
They want you to know and understand the fundamentals of defensive shooting and weapons handling before you take it to the next level of using those skills under pressure in a defensive type senario.
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