Advice on first Long Range Scope for Hunting

[Huntolive]

I am looking for a good , sturdy, scope for long range hunting that can withstand 300 WM recoil, and preferably 375 H+H recoil (but not necessarily). I do NOT want to pay over $850. I want to work up to being able to take large game at 500 yards at least.

This may be mounted on: 6.5 Grendel semi-auto, 308 semi-auto, 300 WM bolt, or 375 Ruger or 375 H+H bolt. Game in mind: Elk, Moose, Bear, Deer.

I am considering various Leupolds:
Mark AR 6-18X40
Mark 4 4.5-14X50
VX 6 4-24 (but that may be too expensive?)

and Nikon Buckmasters 6-18X40 on the cheap end, but i understand this has a mix of mildot and MOA which sounds like a mess. On the other hand, the Nikon could offer alot of bang for the buck.

What about Vortex options, etc? Again, not looking to pay over $850, and preferably less.

What about Vortex Diamondback HP 4X16X42? I can get a great deal on one of those.

How big a problem is having 2nd focal plane reticle? I think the leupolds have that.

I would also prefer a scope that dosn't start with too high a magnification.
What sounds good to me would be 4-18. I would rather give up a little on the high end to be able to get ability at lower end for possible close up opportunities, or dangerous game.

Also, how much difference does a 30MM tube make vs a 1inch tube? And how much advantage does a 50MM objective give over a 40MM objective for long-range scopes? All of my current scopes and RINGS mounted are 1 inch (and I have at least 6), so if I go w/ 30 MM or larger tube I would need to buy new rings. I do NOT want objective over 50 MM.

 

[Tract Optics]

Lots of questions there, I'll try to help with a few.

First, its best to narrow down what you're really doing with it, to know what features you will NEED and will want. If wanting to hunt further out, and 500 is still a good poke for most hunters, you will need to make sure you have enough internal travel. 30mm tube would be a good idea. You get more elevation adjustment which helps in sighting in and having more travel if you spin the dials when hunting.

DG and LR don't usually go together. You want 2x max as the minimum on DG in my mind. I'm speaking from an African perspective for DG. I have a VX6 2-12x on a 375H&H which is my "all-around" plains game and DG rifle. If specifically going for DG, I would go with a 1-6x.

SFP vs. FFP is all preference to what you're looking for. Traditionally, hunting scopes are SFP and target/'tactical' scopes are FFP, but there is more crossover now. I still prefer a SFP for hunting, and FFP for target shooting. If you havent looked through both, go to a Cabelas and do it. Look at some of the taxidermy from across the store and compare.

I'm going to throw this out because it is a pretty nice and under sung scope. But, Bushnell has a 6500 Elite (very nice glass), 30mm tube, and 2.5-16x magnification. Can be had for around 600-650.

You can also snag a Leupold VX6 3-18x44 for around 1000-1050 if you look for it. that would satisfy all your requirements and then some and will take the punishment and give you fantastic clarity.

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks, keep it comin'!

Thanks,

the VX6b 2x12 sound perfect, but How much $$$?
What can I do w/ a Virtex Diamondback HP 4X16x42? I am probably getting that in a package deal on a 308 I may get next week.

If VX6 too expensive, what about Mark 4 4.5X 14X50? or others like that?

I will be happy shooting well out to 500. Beyond that is just a long-term goal, but 500 would be great. Any reason a 375 cant shoot out to 500 yards just like a 300 WM?

Is that Bushnell really able to take the recoil of 375 Ruger or 375 HH?
I am a bit biased against bushnell, but if it has glass as good as a Redfield , the 2.5- 16 magnification is almost exactly what i'm looking for. How is it w/ holding elevation settings for long shots? How are the Leupold's you and i mentioned?

 

[Tract Optics]

Depending on model, you can get a deal on the VX6 2-12 for around your price, maybe $900. Coupon codes are easy to find on forums.

What can you do?? Buy another rifle of course! Or leave it on there and have a nice shooter.

VX6 will be in same ballpark at that mark 4

Ive seen guys walk 375's out well past that. Just...practice, practice, practice. Getting adjusted for the recoil and not flinching on a trigger pull is your biggest enemy.

If present both options, i would hands down go with the VX6. The 6500 is less money, but that comes with concessions. Definitely not in the same class as the VX6's. remember, Leupolds take a bruising and keep cruising. All are even airgun rated for reverse recoil.

 

[entropy]

Can't go wrong with any of the Leupolds you listed. I'd choose the Mk4, but I also wouldn't shoot 500 yards at game. YMMV.

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks, keep it comin'!

I am leaning towards one of the Leupolds.

So if $1000 is my absolute highest I can pay, and i want something that goes from about 2x16 ideally, what would you recommend, and what tube and objective diameter?

Also, what is the Vortex Diamondback HP 4X16X42 good for? What are its weaknesses? Is this a decent mid-long range scope?

 

[farmerboy78]

The vortex viper hst will easily fill your needs for way less than those you have listed. The 4-16 is $550 new, the 6-24 is near $100 more. Has a zero stop, great glass, tough as hell, and has a no fault warranty

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks, I will look into the vortex viper hst.

What can that one do that the Vortex Diamondback hp 4X12X42 can not?

Ideally i would like a scope with close-long-ish range ability.
For ex: 2x16X 40 or 50 so it could both be good for dangerous game up close at 2 power, and also allow my 300WM or 308 or 6.5 Grendel or even future 375 HH to reach out to 500 yards.

What best fill that bill reasonably priced and recoil proof?

 

[Huntolive]

I am down to the following choices after some research:

Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP $900
Vtx Vpr PST 4-16X50 SFP $700 (possibly $500 on Euro Optics)
Vtx Vpr HST 4-16X 44 $570

Bushnell 6500 Elite 2.5-16X50 $750 ( so I can maximize the low-high power for dangerous game all the way up to long-range)

I want to get order one by Monday.

Ideas?

 

[Sav .250]

Half the fun is finding some if not all the answers to your questions thru

your own investigative skills.

You know what your looking for, others are just guessing . Opinions.

You long range plans may well chance over the course of time.

Plans are fluid.

By doing your own home work you learn/ retain more of the information.

Information by committee.... Is just that.

 

[Huntolive]

Good point Sav, but I would still appreciate experience w/ the Bushnell 6500 elite vs VV PST or HST.

Also how big a deal is FFP vs SFP?
I want this for Hunting, not target. But easy operation is good for me.

 

[sage5907]

If you're buying a scope for a hunting rifle you need to think about two areas of concern. First, a 40 mm objective is far better for hunting because it is far easier to handle. Secondly, the weight of a hunting scope is really important. I use a Leupold Mark 4 M3 scope on some rifles and the scope weighs 19 ounces but a 13 ounce scope is all you need and is also far easier to use and carry around. If you plan on carrying the rifle in the field get a 3 to 9 variable with a 30 mm tube and a 40 MM objective, a long range duplex reticle and keep the weight of the scope around 13 ounces. If you try to carry a 10 pound rifle with a 50 mm objective you probably won't get very far from the truck.

 

[Huntolive]

I'm down to the following options:

Buy nothing and use what I have and master the "art of hold-overs" $0

Vrtx Viper PST FFP 4-16X50 $900

SWFA SS 3-15X42 FFP $700

I am concerned that if i do NOT get a scope w/ turret adjustment for elevation that my holdovers may not even be on a line in my reticle when adjusting for wind and elevation.

How much does elevation turret help?
How important is ZERO STOP?
Or is it better to go w/ lighter, basic 3-9X40 or 50 and just train for hold overs?

Remember that my goal is to be able to take large game at 500 Yards plus.

 

[farmerboy78]

You don't have to get a ffp scope, odds are If you bought the 4-16 hst you will be shooting g at high power anyway. It has adjustable turrets that will track, it has a zero stop, and a bullet proof warranty that will transfer... so even if you bought one used, vortex will still repair it if it had problems... get the 4-16 hst and don't look back!

 

[osprey176]

I picked up a HST a short time ago for long(er) range hunting,and have shot it out to 840. I'm very pleased and would recommend it highly. Excellent scope with a great warranty.I didn't see a strong enough need for an FFP scope,so I passed on the PST.

 

[WelshShooter]

I do a lot of field shooting at reactive targets, I don't hunt game at all so take this with a pinch of salt. I've used the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP out to ~1,300m with my 6.5x47 Lapua. For my purposes I find the FFP is very beneficial because I don't have to guess my windage or elevation changes when I change magnification based on engaging targets at different distances.

However, the downside to FFP reticle scopes is that the reticles grow when you zoom in, and are more expensive compared to SFP reticle scopes. The reticle might be to obstructive if you maximise the zoom and can impair your vision. With this in mind, it might be better for you to spend the extra dosh on a nicer clarity scope.

Another thing to keep in mind if you're looking for scopes with mildot reticles. Make sure that the reticle measurements at turrets match. There are some scopes out there which are mrad/moa and not mrad/mrad or moa/moa!

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks that makes alot of sense.

So to clarify, all the scopes i have up until now have only had 2 dials:
1 on top for sighting in for up-down
1 on the right for sighting in left-right

How does the turret on top on a scope designed for long range (such as the Viper PST or HST or Mark 4) differ, and what added abilities does it offer?

What does the 3rd dial do on the more advanced longer range scopes like all the models I have mentioned above (Viper HST/PST, SWFA SS, etc)

Is that just for paralax? I had been under the impression that that was used to temporarily alter the elevation setting, but now believe I was wrong.
What is paralax? What if anything does the 3rd dial do other than adjust "paralax"?

Thus: if i want to do elevation adjustments for long range by dialing, then i am actually changing the "sighted-in" elevation dial that normaly would be on the top of a basic 3-9x40 type scope such as a Redfield revolution? Right?

That sounds bad, alot to keep track of. Maybe holdovers r a better way to go. It also makes Zero Stop or Zero Return feature offered on some scope vip.

 

[farmerboy78]

Yep the zero stop is very handy, and the hst has that

 

[You-Two]

Personally...I would consider one of the Leupolds with CDS for this task.

VX 3 or 3i
VX R 4-12
VX 6 2-12

I've owned the Vortex HST 4-16 and the features are great, but wasn't that impressed with the optics once the light started to fade. Like the Bushnell LRHS much better. Similar size and weight. The Leupolds have decent glass and weight less and are more compact generally. I wouldn't use the CDS on a target rifle, but it works well for hunting applications out to 500 like you mentioned. Also, Burris Veracity and the Bushnell 2.5-16.

 

[WelshShooter]

Thanks that makes alot of sense.

So to clarify, all the scopes i have up until now have only had 2 dials:
1 on top for sighting in for up-down
1 on the right for sighting in left-right

How does the turret on top on a scope designed for long range (such as the Viper PST or HST or Mark 4) differ, and what added abilities does it offer?

What does the 3rd dial do on the more advanced longer range scopes like all the models I have mentioned above (Viper HST/PST, SWFA SS, etc)

Is that just for paralax? I had been under the impression that that was used to temporarily alter the elevation setting, but now believe I was wrong.
What is paralax? What if anything does the 3rd dial do other than adjust "paralax"?

Thus: if i want to do elevation adjustments for long range by dialing, then i am actually changing the "sighted-in" elevation dial that normaly would be on the top of a basic 3-9x40 type scope such as a Redfield revolution? Right?

That sounds bad, alot to keep track of. Maybe holdovers r a better way to go. It also makes Zero Stop or Zero Return feature offered on some scope vip.

Yes, the top turret is for elevation and the right hand turret (assuming objective bell is facing away from you) is for windage.

The left turret is for parallax. Essentially, you need to adjust this for long range shots as it brings the reticle and the target on the same plane of focus. If you don't adjust parallax for long range shots, then if you move your eye position up or down (relative to the scope) the reticle will not align to the target you are shooting at which leads to errors. Some scopes are classed as "parallax free" which essentially reduces the parallax as much as possible, I don't know how they do this so I cannot answer that question. Some scopes which have illuminated reticles have the battery and power buttons near/on the parallax turret. The Vortex one is built into the occular eye piece though.

Exposed tactical turrets are handy too, it means you don't have to remove the scope covers to make adjustments. I seem to be adjusting my scope all the time for my type of shooting so it's a definite must for me.

A zero stop is useful to have, but only on scopes where you're going to rotating the elevation turret more than one rotation (i.e. long range).

Holdovers are generally good enough for hunters. Look at the Redfield Revolution Accurange reticle. There are holdovers on there which are calibrated for certain bullet weights travelling at certain velocities, you can use these as aiming points for different distances. Also, look at the Vortex Viper PST reticles. These have holdovers but are expressed in MRAD or MOA, so therefore you need to know how much elevation to give for your particular calibre at a particular distance. In essence, you will need to chronograph your handload (or check the factory ammunition for muzzle velocity, either way, it's best to actually chronograph the load) and enter the muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient into a ballistic app. This will then produce the amount of drop for different distances. You can use that in conjunction with the MOA/MRAD markers on certain reticles in a rifle.

Sorry this post was a bit long winded, but there was a lot of stuff to write down to answer your questions.

 

[FSJeeper]

Best value in a scope in the range you are looking for is the Minox 2 x 10 x 40.
If you shop you can get one for less than $400 and if you do your research you'll see they are a top shelf quality scope.

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks, keep it comin'!

For now i ordered Vrtx Viper PST from Euro Optics for $500, SFP.

4-16X50. Don't think the features offered for that price can be beaten.
Now i just need to decide which rifle will wear this eco. Cadillac, or if it will double duty on 300 WM and 6.5 Grendel. Might want 2 get something lighter weight to compliment the light weight of the Grendel. Advice?