Advice re: Primer, Powder Storage in Outbuilding

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rockhound758

rockhound758

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Hello from (starting to be) humid Central Ohio!

Did a search and didn't find an answer so here goes:

I want to store some powder and primers in a shed toward the back of my property rather than having it in my basement. I have a full-size, vertical freezer as well as a 4.3 cubic foot refrigerator that I could use. I could put the freezer and/or the refrigerator in the shed, and potentially plug the refrigerator in and keep it on a low setting. My questions are:

1) Is there a problem with primers and powder being in a working refrigerator (set on the lowest/least cool) setting? The threads I've read seem to mention unplugged refrigerators...other than the electricity costs, is there a reason why a working fridge would be a bad idea (with a big box of dessicant in it?) It gets pretty warm and humid here (I've got stuff in sealed containers with dessicant right now in the shed but it's already warm) so I'm wanting to keep them cool, but not all in my house.

2) Do unplugged refrigerators, freezers, etc. moderate temperatures enough that they stay cool enough in hot weather? In other words, will having them unplugged keep the stuff cool enough?

Any advice, thoughts, etc. would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
I do not know how an unplugged refrigerator/freezer would perform in moderating temperatures. My thought would be that when it gets hot in the shed, it will be hot in the unplugged container as well.

As far as having the refrigerator plugged in, I would opt for something else. Normal refrigeration temperatures are 40-45 degrees F and even at the lowest setting, I would think it should maintain a temperature less than 55 degrees F. This will be considerably cooler than the ambient air in your shed during the summer months. As such, I expect that you might deal with condensation on the outside of your containers/boxes when removing products for reloading.

You may not experience any problems with this condensation on the outside of a plastic container of powder. However, you would need to let this come up to room temp. before opening/reloading to ensure that moisture does not compromise the powder in question. This is due to the air inside of the container being cooler and it will expand as it warms. In doing so, there will be convection with the surrounding air and you will be subject to warm moist air interacting with the powder granules.

It is possible that there might not be any harm, but I know that gunpowder is hygroscopic and this may cause some longterm problems. Evidence of excess moisute is clumping and a sulfur (rotten egg) smell. You might also observe a brown smoke coming from the container as you agitate the powder inside.

Maybe someone with more experience can offer additional information that will help us all. I tend to err on the side of caution and I would stay away from this scenario. By the way, I am in hot, humid, Eastern NC.
 
I keep my primers in an outbuilding in hot, humid NC. Just put them in a good sealing ammo can with some desiccant. I have never had a problem storing them that way.
 
Good thoughts folks, and thanks for the responses. ATeam, my only thought on the moderation thing would be that an insulated container might minimize daily temperature variation, but your points about the hygroscopic nature of powder were part of my concern about cooling.

Sounds like maybe keeping them stored in sealed containers with a packet of dessicant in each one will work okay, even if it gets hot in the shed. I was just wondering about it given the "store in cool, dry location" instructions on the containers. But then again, it has to be shipped and stored and I doubt it's always in cool temperature during those times.

If anyone else has other thoughts, please weigh in...thanks!
 
Powder and primers stored in the basement are less likely to be a hazard than storing a gas can full of gas in the garage. Get a wooden box or ammo cans and store them with dessicant in the basement.

Most of us store ours right near the bench in the house and probably have a lot more powder and primers than you have. I keep a few thousand primers on a shelf above the bench and a few pounds of powder below it. If you have little ones running around put them all above the bench.

That's my advice and worth exactly what you paid for it.:D
 
Sounds like you got good information.

I can help store some of your Federal sp primers, just pm me I'll pay shipping.
 
Thanks again for the info, folks. I do in fact have a few pounds of powder and some primers in the basement and I'll keep my other primers there as well, but a few other pounds of powder in my shed. I just don't want to have to worry about exceeding what my insurance company might consider a reasonable amount of accelerant in the house itself.

And 1SOW, I sincerely appreciate the...hmmm..."generosity" you've displayed...I see it quite a bit from members on this board and it truly warms one's heart. :)

In all seriousness, as I'm sure most of you would second, this is a great site with great information, and very little flaming (even in these stressful times).

Take care all, and have a great day!
 
I got to talk to an DoD Energics expert. My notes and recollections:

Double based powders start deteriorating the day they leave the factory. Nitroglycerine and nitrocellulose want to combine to form a lower energy compound. Nitric acid gas is released as a by product of this reaction.

The reaction rate is directly proportional to heat. The hotter things are, the faster the reaction.

The Navy initially test for acid gas by the Methly Violet test, or Talliani test. If acid gas is detected than a chemical analysis is performed to determine the amount of stabilizer in the powder. (Stablilzer is either MNA or 2-NDPA)
When the concentration of stabilizer is LT or EQ to 20% of the original content, the Navy scrapes the lot.

The Army does things different. They scrap based on clock time. 20 years for double based powders, 45 years for single base.

Per the expert, the best storage conditions for powder is artic cold. That is cold and dry. He said water exposure damages powder.

I would there fore advise storing powder in as cool and dry conditions as possible.

Primers, I don’t know. I don’t know why cool dry would not be good for them also.
 
SlamFire1,

That is a consistent, but certainly much more detailed, account of my understanding as well. The Army numbers sounds conservative, but their method sure is more cost effective than the Navy's method. HOOAH!
 
I have had primers and powder stored in original containers in a unheated or cooled storage building since the early 90s. I have lost one container of powder over that time. Everything else performs as it should.
 
rock,

Use your frige, buy a Gunslick Goldenrod, or Gunsaver, they are small rod shaped dehumidifiers,(heaters) that are desgined to keep the interior of gun safes 2-3 degrees higher than the ambeint temp. In an enclosed area this makes a humidity controled enviroment, I beleive the 12" covers 100 cubic feet and the 18" 200 cubic feet, which should work great in a large frige. They come with brackets for mounting horizontaly at the botom, the cord comes with a removable plug so you can drill a small hole through the frige feed the cord through , then seal it with silicone and attach the plug.

I use one in a foot locker for my powder with a 2 lb dessicant can for a double whammy, and I have one in my gun safe. They get just barely warm to the touch.

I like your idea about the frige and my next project will probably be a junk frige with the coils and compressor pulled out. Thanks for the idea!
 
Well damn fellas, now I'm confused :)

Okay, primers will go to a couple of different spots in my basement, in closed containers with dessicant. Powder is going to go in the fridge, set at the warmest possible setting...along with a big ol' box of dessicant.

Thanks all, and have a good one!
 
Rockhound, I have the same humid weather here in southwestern Ohio. I keep all of my components in the basement. Half of the basement is a finished family room, so I run a dehumidifier in the summer. The unfinished area has my work benches, laundry equipment, utilities and the man area for fishing and hunting stuff.
I used my Foodsaver vacuum sealer with the plastic bags for 100 ct primer packs, then put them in ammo cans.
Powder is stored in an old filing cabinet, about 20 feet from my reloading area.
My basement stays at a more consistent temperature, so I believe that to be the best course.
+1 on the flammable stuff you store in your garage that poses more risk to your house than anything else. I foreclosed on a silver maple tree in my yard that will now house an outdoor shed for all of that stuff (gas cans, lawn instruments of vegetative death, etc).
 
Nothing wrong with that plan, rockhound758.

However, when you anticipate using the powder, be sure to get it out a day or more in advance and let it get to loading room temperature. As Ateam-3 correctly pointed out, the cold powder opened in a humid atmosphere will collect moisture rapidly, no way around that. Letting it get to the same temp as the room air in the sealed container will help a lot when you do open the container.

In other words, consider the fridge only a long term storage method. For example, if you plan to reload some on a weekend, and to continue to reload the next weekend, don't put the powder back in the fridge.
 
Mal:

Yep, got it. The fridge is more long-term outdoor shed storage, and I'll definitely let it get up to loading room temperature before I open it.

Again, folks, thanks for the comments and input...THR continues to impress me as a place for great input and collegiality.

Have a good weekend all!
 
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