Air Force hand gun replacement (again)

[McCall911]

Wouldn't EFMJ also violate the Hague?

Sure would, because EFMJ does expand. It doesn't seem to penetrate worth a flip, but it does expand:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289520&highlight=EFMJ
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289512&highlight=EFMJ
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289211&highlight=EFMJ

 

[chris in va]

The qualification requirement for the average airman is once a year or every two years if the get expert

Actually, we qualified ONCE with the M16. I had never even heard of an M9, much less shot one. This was 92-96. We certainly were NOT allowed to shoot it full auto.

 

[mickmten]

For those not familiar with the M9:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/true_story_m9.htm

 

[JonP]

Currently, it's once every two years for M16 if you qualify expert. You qualify with the M9 additionally if you're expected to carry it on a deployment (which I did). Both courses of fire are ridiculously easy.

 

[jkingrph]

I'm interested in this topic because I'm ex-Air Force and I was issued an M-9 back in the early 90's. I was a pilot serving with the Army as an Air Liaison Officer (ALO) and it was a time when we in the Air Force had the M-9 and our Army counterparts were still with the 1911. The Army 1911's were Korean-war vintage and really looked like they were relics (I think they were issued C&Rs along with the weapon). I agree with many of the thoughts expressed here -- there are probably better things that the Air Force could buy.

When I was on active duty the average Air Force pogue didn't have the need to get to the range on a periodic basis. Only those who were in an assignment that required arms got the training. I really think that the training we received was just to familiarize us with the weapon, the basics of range safety and how not to be anxious around a loaded weapon. Let's just say that many Air Force people had their first and last experience with a personal weapon on the range. I think that attitude has changed in the last few years and I applaud that development.

I read recently that handguns are the ultimate "point and click" user interface. Thanks for the input folks, this is a great forum.

I'm also an ex Air Force officer. I was active duty from 1968 to 1979. As a medical(pharmacy) officer the only firearms training I received was qualification in basic training with the M-16 and with the S&W 38 in OTS.
I "joined" the active reserve in late '90, just in time for Desert Storm, and got my "qualification with the M-9 only after returning from overseas. I find it an ok handgun, a bit bulky. If I had my preferances I would choose a 1911 platform in 40 or 45. It I had to choose a 9mm it would be the Browning P-35.

Actually one of the Para-Ordance LDA formats would be good, considering the trigger is consistant from the first to the last shot. It would need a lot of testing for reliability.

 

[DMK]

That and FMJ feeds better. 1 dead soldier removes 1 from the battle, 1 wounded soldier removes 3 from the battle.

1 wounded soldier means a guy who could shoot or frag you when you move on thinking he was dead.

 

[GunTech]

Also, "Finally, the Army and the Marine Corps--the services most likely to use the weapon in combat--have shown no desire to switch back to a .45 model." I think the Corps still uses the 1911, is that correct?

I guess that explains why the military was considering a new Joint Services Pistol in .45. One of the main reasons being complaints of the effectiveness of 9mm ball in combat.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/jcp.htm

Currently on hold.

 

[Gewehr98]

It depends on your AFSC/RI, really.

Currently, it's once every two years for M16 if you qualify expert. You qualify with the M9 additionally if you're expected to carry it on a deployment (which I did). Both courses of fire are ridiculously easy.

Your frequency of recurring weapons qualification is based on the category that they assign to you and your AF Form 522 qualification card. Security Forces get to qualify M16 and M9 every year. Bomber/Recce Crew dawgs like myself qualified every year on M9, and M16 not so often. That was changing before I retired last year, because they consider the M16 to be your aircrew ground/tent city weapon now. If you get identified for an AEF deployment, you may get tagged to qual fire M16 and M9 again prior to shipping out, especially if your Form 522 drops dead sometime during the duration of your deployment.

The quals are fairly easy, and they finally do the Mozambique drill now for M9. I qualified Expert *almost* every time I had the opportunity, through 20 years and 2 months. I had a couple really sloppy Colt AR-15 slickside rifles that could have seriously used a rebuild or been sent off to a museum somewhere, the bullets did not always go where the front sight said they should. I wonder if Curtis LeMay used them himself?

You only get the one ribbon, and a bronze star to wear for the second weapon's Expert qualification, one Expert qual for rifle, one Expert qual for handgun. Over the years, I qualified expert on the M38, M1911, M9, and and various flavors of M16. That still only entitled me to one ribbon, and one bronze star device.

 

[Alphazulu6]

As for the topic of a new handgun for the Air Force. I say no thank you. In the rare event that I need to be issued a weapon, I'd rather my fellow airmen have a shotgun. I'd personally love to be issued an MP5 or a PDW, but I doubt that's going to happen ha ha

I agree with jragsdale post about the AF not needing new firearms. I also agree with 748 and his post that

9mm is fine as long as you don't have to use it.