Sailors, Airmen Land New Role

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280PLUS

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USA Today
May 8, 2006
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Sailors, Airmen Land New Role

Training to help strained Army in combat zones

By Tom Vanden Brook, USA Today

WASHINGTON — The Navy and Air Force are training their sailors and airmen for war duty far from the seas or skies: jobs typically performed by a strained Army in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Navy and Air Force personnel are replacing Army soldiers to carry out such duties as guarding convoys, patrolling bases and watching for homemade bombs, the top killer of U.S. troops in Iraq.

The Navy also is running a prison in Iraq, patrolling rivers and helping to clear and search buildings.

About 8,000 sailors are on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Rear Adm. David Gove, head of the Navy Personnel Command. By the end of the year, that number is expected to grow to as many as 12,000, he says.

Gove says it makes sense to tap into a broader pool of talent. “There is a realization of capability in other parts of the services that we need to leverage,” he says.

The Air Force has not said how many airmen are doing Army jobs.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Carl Ey says the training gives commanders more flexibility and doesn't signal a shortage of soldiers.

Andrew Krepinevich, a military analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, counters, “If the Army wasn't having recruiting challenges and exceeding rotation rates, we wouldn't be having this discussion.”

Krepinevich authored a Pentagon-sponsored report this year that found extended deployments were straining the military.

Frederick Kagan, a military historian at the American Enterprise Institute, says training sailors and airmen to do the jobs of seasoned soldiers is “what you do only when you're desperate.”

The Navy's crash course on combat at the Army's Fort Jackson in South Carolina is staffed by Army instructors and trains about 200 sailors every two weeks. It stresses rifle skills, troop movements, first aid, convoy security and identifying roadside bombs.

Master Chief Doug Boswell, 46, who recently completed the course, says he'll rely on the skills to keep him and his sailors safe during their one-year tour in Iraq. “They're trying to get sailors ready for rigors of shore duty in potentially hostile overseas ports,” he says.

This year, the Air Forceextended its basic training course to eight weeks from six. “I see our future as an expeditionary force in this long war on terrorism,” Air Force Chief of Staff Michael Moseley says.

U.S. troops serving in or near war zones

Iraq -- Army: 137,600; Marine Corps: 27,400; Air Force: 23,100; Navy: 18,900

Afghanistan -- Army: 15,400; Marine Corps: 1,200; Air Force: 3,400; Navy: 400

Source: Defense Manpower Data Center (as of Dec. 31; includes National Guard and reserves)
 
Yep, got a few friends over there right now at least a couple are pretty senior... This was also the subject of a conversation today with a couple of C3F folks- There are more going from here to there in the near future. Most of them are volunteers!
 
So what do you think NFO? Are they doing this because we're going SOL on soldiers or are they just trying to broaden the scope of all the services. If that were true, why don't we see soldiers and Marines crossing over and manning the con (for example)?
 
lol.. 'Cause we need Soldiers and Marines to shoot insurgents?

I wonder if the Squids and Air Force guys who are getting turned into grunts are pissed about this? I can just imagine an Sailor sitting there guarding a checkpoint in Iraq thinking to himself, "How could this have happened? I JOINED THE NAVY!"

:D
 
I don't like to see it.

Not that I'm trying to guard "our ground". However, it's not enough to send a guy through a few days/weeks of training and expect them to do well.

I felt real bad for the Navy junior enlisted guys I went through deployment prep with a while back. These guys were headed to the box and were real short on training.

I just don't think it's giving them a fair chance.
 
superhornet, If I'm interpreting your statement correctly I would reply by saying I'm questioning the motives of gov not the individuals. If the gov was REALLY trying to cross train people shouldn't we see some reports of significant numbers of Army and Marine personel being trained to operate USN and USAF equipment?
 
Warrior14: Our "friends" in the UN will send troops to assist our citizens with any emergencys that we have!:barf:
 
It's not cross training.

It's trying to plus up the Army. They are now bonuses for people to leave the Navy or AF to join the Army. Especially the AF since they are over their end strength authorizations and have been for years.

The Army is short and they aren't so DOD is trying to shift people around some.
 
A local Army recruiter told me that the max age for a new recruit will be 43 by July of this year.:scrutiny:
Biker
 
Ohen has it right- The Army is just so short staffed- Our guys and girls are gap fillers. With the Klinton drawdown, we lost the better part of, I believe, three divisions of AD Army. The Guard and Reserves just can't keep up due to OPTEMPO/PERSTEMPO. Since the Marines are fully committed, that leaves the Navy and Air Force (who don't want to play in the sandbox). The folks going over are what are called IA's (indvidual Augmentees), As others have indicated, they only receive minimal training at Ft. Jackson, and go directly over from there. At least they are Navy led (by and Airdale :D )
 
IA'S have minimal training is an UNDERSTATEMENT.

A buddy got IA's, and he got more small arms training in a saturday at the local range with me and another pilot, than at Ft. Jackson.
 
At Dawn We Slept

My recent post "high anxiety" was about this subject, except I must have not expressed myself clearly enough.

The subject of your "thread" is indeed symptomatic of an underlying fault in our nations' military.

When I mentioned the use of "Marines" in my post, you would have thought I was in a bar outside of Paris Is.! "PATH" thought I had questioned the use of Marines for this mission, and assured me that they will go anywhere and fight anywhere they are ordered to -in the world. Whew! As if I didn't know that.
Then "Crucible" felt I was somehow chalanging their esprit de corps, and wanted me to know the USMC is the finest fighting force in the world.
Then I had a response from "Bartholomew Roberts" who, instead of discussing the point of my post, which is essentially a connection to your post, wanted to debate statistics of why I concluded that "most" of the US forces are Reservists or N.G. Maybe not most, but many anyway. Too many.

That is; for the defense of our homeland. We need a larger man power Army for the defense of the USA. The Clinton Admin. had depleted our armed forces to the point where we are vunerable. Should we need them, the only other strategy we have is Nuclear! Who wants that? And I seriously doubt if any Commander in Chief would employ "Armageddon" unless because of political hesitancy, our beloved country had already suffered immense casualties and relegated such weaponry as a last resort where, it would be preposterous to use it anyway.

Watch the replies you receive; "exogesis;" the reading into, or the reading out from something that is not there, i.e. not stated at all.
Some readers have hair triggers, and do not thoroughly read or contemplate before replying.

Hope you get responses more on topic than I did.

I don't think "we" have heard the last of this.
 
I've been around here long enough so that I believe the bulk of the vets and active duty folk around here know me and know I fully support them and their missions past, present and future equally and regardless of which branch they serve. I am fortunate that in my posts on this and related topics here at THR I have almost always garnered reasonable and well thought out replies from folks that are highly iqualified to speak on the subject. All in all the military folk around here seem to get along pretty darn good with each other if you ask me.

;)
 
I've been around here long enough so that I believe the bulk of the vets and active duty folk around here know me and know I fully support them and their missions past, present and future equally and regardless of which branch they serve. I am fortunate that in my posts on this and related topics here at THR I have almost always garnered reasonable and well thought out replies from folks that are highly iqualified to speak on the subject. All in all the military folk around here seem to get along pretty darn good with each other if you ask me.
Yeah, but we STILL get to take cheap shots at each other....:evil:

I had an interesting conversation with an Army CWO-4 today at the Skeds Conference. He retired in 1996 on 28 years, was recalled in 2001, and as he put it, has been a staff weenie since then. His only real gripe is that they will not consider him for promotion to CWO-5. He's been in the sandbox twice, and is doing a lot of the coordination between Navy and Army right now. He told me there are a lot of retirees back in uniform in the Army right now. Some vol, some non-vol recalls.
 
This articles falls into the "Day late and a Dollar short" category.

AF guys and gals have been manning BMGs on convoy duty in Iraq for a couple years now.
 
Wait until something happens here, be it bird flu, illegal rioting / civil unrest, where will they get the soldiers from?

There's plenty of active duty troops sitting stateside. Remember Katrina
when all of the LA guardsmen and reservists were in Iraq and they sent
in the "regular army" to take care of NOLA?

LOL, I was in Iraq while my active duty counterparts were working in
Army hospitals in CONUS and germany.....
 
Yeah, but we STILL get to take cheap shots at each other....

But of COURSE! :evil: It's like I always said "You don't call me a squid and I won't call you whatever you are" You could leave out "Monkey's Mate" too if you don't mind. :D
 
As I see it there are two reasons for the use of the Air Force and Navy personnel. It boils down to reducing the military a few years back and with that our service men are making multiple combat deployments into two different active theaters. Can Air Force and Navy men and women accomplish this mission? With proper training they will fight and some will die with the best of the grunts but they will accomplish the mission. I guess if I were a sailor or airman I might be asking what I’m doing guarding convoys in a combat theater?


Any one know how they are being picked or are they taking volunteers?

Regarding training nothing changes with time. I was trained with the M-14 rifle and once I got orders to RVN in 1968 I had to qualify with the M-16. Training included learning the nomenclature, disassembly/assembly and qualify on the range. I was qualified as an Expert with the M-14 and other infantry arms and when I went to the range to qualify with the 16 the instructor made the comment he had a hot date and we needed to get this show over with. I fired one magazine on full auto down range and was qualified as a marksman. So much for proper training. My MOS was 11B.

I think what needs to be done is “BRING BACK THE DRAFT’


Turk

Remember to pray for our troops.
 
An interesting bit of history. In the Phillipines during WW II, after the fall of Corregedor (Sp?) there was a unit called the "Yellow Battalion." They were noted to be extremely valorous if a little lacking in Infantry skills. The unit consisted of Beached and Stranded Sailors who, in order to be less visible, attempted to dye their white uniforms. They weren't too successful. The end result was sickly yellow.
 
wonder if the Squids and Air Force guys who are getting turned into grunts are pissed about this?
Y'all need to understand that most of us understand quite well that a boots-on-the-ground tour is a valuable career ticket getting punched ...

Can't speak for my AF brothers, but I volunteered. I did, however, retire rather than return for a third deployment to Iraq (though this one would have been non-voluntary; after five deployments in one eight-year period, I needed to spend time with family).

AF guys and gals have been manning BMGs on convoy duty in Iraq for a couple years now.
Nothing new for the Navy, either ... we had "joint contingency TAD assignments" before; now we have "individual augmentation assignments."
 
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