AK 47 - Nightmare Too Work On

[WinThePennant]

I have ARs.

I have AKs.

Tonight, I spent three hours putting the infernal mag catch spring in one of my AKs.

The AR comes up short on some things, but it is a damn sight easier to work on that the "people's rifle," AKA, the AK 47.

 

[briansmithwins]

The AR is designed to be assembled with simple tools but requires high technology to make correctly.

The AK is designed to be easily made but requires complex tools to assemble correctly.

BSW

 

[Avenger]

Different design philosophies. The Soviets never intended the AK to be serviced by the end-user rifleman beyond cleaning and lubrication. ANYTHING beyond that meant the rifle was replaced and sent back for refurbishment.

 

[Inebriated]

AK's are easier to maintain, harder to build/work on. I love working on AK's, much more than AR's. It's a challenge, and it requires a certain level of craftsmanship to do a good job.

 

[Swampman]

I just look at it as the difference between accessorizeing a Malibu Barbie and working on a CJ-5...

 

[GC51]

Interesting feedback, I guess I never had to work on my AK, it was tough as nails and simple to field-strip...when I finally traded it for an L1A1, I had put a few thousand rounds through it and it had, on a couple of occasions, gone full auto giving me two shots with one trigger pull...not sure why.

 

[gotmine]

A third set of fingers would work wonders for that spring installation. Every time you do it is just like the first time.
I find building ak's is relatively easy once you have the tooling for it

 

[carbine85]

I've been in the process of building on from ground up. What a PITA! It will be the last one I build. I love the AR15 and don't know what I was thinkin

 

[Inebriated]

^pro tip... 12 gauge hulls are perfect for the hammer spring.

 

[powder]

Bizzare, I've never had to work on my AK beyond cleaning and basic hand-polishing of action surfaces, with never dull.

What are the "specialty" tools I'm supposed to "need"?

 

[Ryanxia]

Interesting feedback, I guess I never had to work on my AK, it was tough as nails and simple to field-strip...when I finally traded it for an L1A1, I had put a few thousand rounds through it and it had, on a couple of occasions, gone full auto giving me two shots with one trigger pull...not sure why.

If you never cleaned the gas tube in thousands of rounds then chances are the fouling got to a point where it was constricting the gasses. I believe what happens (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that when that happens it doesn't push the bolt back with enough force to catch the disconnector but far enough back that it will cycle another round and fire.

A buddy of mine had a similar issue and when I cleaned the gas tube out for him it was caked on black goop. After I cleaned it, it didn't have any issues.

 

[Destructo6]

If you never cleaned the gas tube in thousands of rounds then chances are the fouling got to a point where it was constricting the gasses. I believe what happens (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that when that happens it doesn't push the bolt back with enough force to catch the disconnector but far enough back that it will cycle another round and fire.

Nah, had it happen in a new Romanian Cugir. Had 3 of them, but only 1 would do it and it did it pretty regularly. Got rid of it quick.

AK vs AR building: different technology. Stamping requires the development of very precise and expensive tooling, fixtures, etc, but once those are ironed out, you can churn out copies rather quickly, but the product is more difficult to rework.

 

[briansmithwins]

Trick for the mag spring. Use a vice to compress the legs and then slip a small plastic cable over the legs. Drop the compressed spring in, set the rivet, and then cut the cable tie and pull it out.

Wear your eye pro: If the spring slips from the vice it will head for orbit!

BSW

 

[Sam1911]

When someone says "work on" I think of repair and maintenance. It would be harder to find a semi-auto rifle that is easier to maintain and work on than an AK.

In a way, when you get into building/rebuilding, the AR distorts the whole playing field. It isn't really "built" so much as assembled, to a level that I really can't recall any other rifles reaching. Now folks are used to that as "building" a gun and it makes every other type of firearm seem so difficult to "work on" in comparison.

As for building and rebuilding, I don't think the AK is very difficult AT ALL to build. I still have one that I built on my garage floor with almost no tools more complicated than a hammer, and at the time I built that one, I'd never owned one or even SHOT one. Works fine!

To the real weaponeer types who build FALs, CEMTE/G3s, AR-180s, AR70s, M1919s, MG42s and on and on, an AK is quite literally gun building 1st grade. Assembling an AR-15 is more like pre-Kindergarten.

 

[Ryanxia]

Sam1911 makes a good point. I recently assembled my first AR15 from a stripped lower and was amazed at how simple it was. I know that other platforms are no where near the LEGO setup so I don't go into them expecting them to be that easy.

 

[PJSprog]

I've never had to "work on" my Norinco beyond the normal cleaning and maintenance, so I guess I have no similar frame of reference. I cannot imagine a simpler rifle, though.

 

[Kanzenbach1]

I remember when I first removed the wire that held the trigger in place... Never had to deal with the mag catch spring yet.

 

[carbine85]

There shouldn't be any question about which rifle is easier to work on. Change out a barrel, gas block or head space the AK and you will see why the AR is easier. Actually I can't think of anything on the AR that is harder to work on.

 

[GC51]

Ryanxia, I think you're right on the money, I never got around to getting a gas port cleaning tool and never cleaned the port. Always suspected that as the culprit...outside of that, I really liked the simple design, it was well-built and even though I also really liked my L1A1, I somewhat regretted the trade. I eventually soothed my pain with the purchase of a PSL though, and I am okay now...

 

[briansmithwins]

I can't think of anything on the AR that is harder to work on.

Which is good, because if you shoot enough you're going to have to replace parts...

I'm thinking mostly of the bolt, which most people are going to just swap w/o checking headspace after is fails at the locking lugs or cam pin hole.

AKs, with all their fitted parts, are not known for breaking parts.

As to the design differences, ARs were designed by a aircraft company and use methods normal for aircraft production from that era: forged aluminum, high strength steel, and plastic composites.

The Sov could have made the AK design lighter, but part of the brief for the AK was not using any strategic materials, they wanted to reserve aluminum for airplanes and missiles. So you get a rifle that's made using alloy steel and wood.

BSW

 

[goon]

I remember when I first removed the wire that held the trigger in place...

Lots of people seem to have difficulty with the Shepherd's Crook, but I never found them to be that frustrating. The key is to have three beers in rapid succession before you start messing with it.

But by nature of how the AK is built, with everything being riveted and pressed together, it's more permanent (and harder to work on). Some of it may not matter... not a whole lot of people are ever going to shoot a good condition AK barrel out. But if you somehow damage it, it ain't a simple fix.

 

[LiquidTension]

The key is to have three beers in rapid succession before you start messing with it.

As an adjunct faculty member of WECSOG, I approve this message. Except I prefer bourbon.

Seriously though, the crook issue is easily solved:
http://www.amazon.com/Tapco-AK0690-AK-Retaining-Plate/dp/B002N2ILPE

I believe dealer price on Midway was less than $5 last time I bought some. I put those in all of the ones I own or have built and have never had an issue.