AR-15 + AK-47 = Sig 556?

[Echo9]

I keep reading that the Sig 556 (or the entire 550 series?) is a combination of the AR-15 platform and the AK-47. The main reason given is usually that an AK bolt looks just like a 556 bolt -- and the similarities appear to stop there.

Yes, they're both piston driven, but the AK is long stroke and the Sig is short stroke. And the recoil springs are in different places.

And why is the Sig similar to an AR? Just because it uses a short stroke piston? Because it uses AR mags? Or because they both use a rotating bolt?

Just how meaningful is it that the AK bolt is similar to the Sig bolt? Is something about an AK bolt inherently durable?

Help me out here. How and why is a Sig 556 the lovechild of an AK and an AR?

 

[nalioth]

You should keep digging.

There are features from lots of precedent firearms in the Sig 556.

As I keep saying, it's a homogenization of all the best features from lots of past firearms, not a "modernized AK-47/AR-15/whatever".

 

[jonnyc]

I thought AR + AK = Galil? Perhaps my math is off.

 

[Echo9]

You forgot to carry the 1. Your welcome.

 

[Quentin]

Where do you keep reading this? I don't see many similarities between the Sig 556 and AK. No doubt newer designs borrow from what's worked before but I think the Sig borrowed from other designs more.

 

[HorseSoldier]

I thought AR + AK = Galil? Perhaps my math is off.

Galil is just an AK with some mods. Has more in common with a FAL after that than an AR.

 

[rd2007]

The 556 is one of the most difficult weapons to find much info on. I am really interested in one, especially now that I've found some places to get some great deals, but it is hard to find very much info from actual users. The specific model I'm looking at is the SWAT Patrol, which I've found for as low as $1200.

 

[Destructo6]

I don't see many similarities between the Sig 556 and AK. No doubt newer designs borrow from what's worked before but I think the Sig borrowed from other designs more.

The SIG 556 is very similar to an AK. Think about an AK with the dust cover welded in place and the carrier coming out the back for tear-down as a result.

Yes, they're both piston driven, but the AK is long stroke and the Sig is short stroke. And the recoil springs are in different places.

No, the SIG is also long stroke. The piston is held to the bolt carrier by the charging handle. To disassemble, you pull the charging handle out, which separates the two, with the carrier coming out the back and the piston coming out the front. The recoil spring is simply wrapped around the gas piston instead of being on a seperate assembly behind the carrier.

The SIG 556 is a very highly refined AK with the control placements and ergonomics (for the most part) of the AR.

 

[DWhitehorne]

Picture of a AK bolt on the left and SIG on the right. I'm bored waiting for the AC repair man so I thought I would snap a picture. Very similar bolts. The location of the charging handle and having the op rod connected to the bolt/carrier is probably the only other similarity between the AK and SIG. David

 

[Girodin]

I don't see many similarities between the Sig 556 and AK

I was going to ask if he had ever looked at the bolt of each. Thanks for the pictures they make that point clear. The sig may not look much like an AK on the outside but if one is familiar with how each operates it is pretty hard to miss the similarities.

 

[nalioth]

I don't see many similarities between the Sig 556 and AK

I was going to ask if he had ever looked at the bolt of each. Thanks for the pictures they make that point clear. The sig may not look much like an AK on the outside but if one is familiar with how each operates it is pretty hard to miss the similarities.

No doubt the comparison pix could be brought about by fans of many platforms.

The Sig isn't an AK (or an AR15, or a [some other rifle]), it just uses known-good features from it.

 

[Hatterasguy]

No the Sig556 is just a stupid americanized version of the 550. Luckly with two push pins you can turn any 556 into a 550 and remove every hint of anything AR.

The Sig5XX series is a cross between an AK and a Fal, think of them as AK's that went to college.


Personly I think its the best 5.56 carbine made, and its my most reliable firearm. I'm coming up on 3k rounds with zero malfunctions of any kind.

 

[Hatterasguy]

The 556 is one of the most difficult weapons to find much info on. I am really interested in one, especially now that I've found some places to get some great deals, but it is hard to find very much info from actual users. The specific model I'm looking at is the SWAT Patrol, which I've found for as low as $1200.

They are pretty amazing rifles. The only downside is that they are naturaly front end heavy, so its not a rifle you would want to mount a bunch of crap up front on. I wouldn't even put a quad rail up front. Also you have to remember that like an AK the front end gets HOT, so an aluminum rail will transfer the heat and force you to wear gloves if your really putting some rounds down range.

You can get them to balance pretty good with the Swiss forend, and you can screw a bit of rail into that if you want a light. Thats about all I would mount upfront.

I beleive the Patrol version has the shorter piston system with a long barrel, I wouldn't buy this one. The shorter piston system beats itself up a bit more like on the M4's, so unless you are running a short barrel like the 552 its pointless.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=178861416

I find the closer you get them to the 550 the better they feel, the Swiss have them set up just about perfectly for their military.

 

[Girodin]

No doubt the comparison pix could be brought about by fans of many platforms.

The Sig isn't an AK (or an AR15, or a [some other rifle]), it just uses known-good features from it.

Certainly its not an AK but I believe the point being made was that if one cannot see any similarities they must be looking with their eyes closed.

 

[Echo9]

Picture of a AK bolt on the left and SIG on the right. I'm bored waiting for the AC repair man so I thought I would snap a picture. Very similar bolts. The location of the charging handle and having the op rod connected to the bolt/carrier is probably the only other similarity between the AK and SIG. David

I read that the bolt also rides on two rails in both the Sig and AK, reducing engagement surfaces and susceptibility to problems from sand, debris, etc -- whereas the AR bolt contacts more of the receiver on the inside, making it less tolerant to fouling.

So that's another similarity I guess.

 

[Hatterasguy]

The carrier is also very similer between the two.

 

[happygeek]

I read that the bolt also rides on two rails in both the Sig and AK, reducing engagement surfaces and susceptibility to problems from sand, debris, etc -- whereas the AR bolt contacts more of the receiver on the inside, making it less tolerant to fouling.

It does, the Sig's bolt rides on rails on either side of the action. I was so used to the M4 at work that when I first got my Sig 556 I oiled down the whole bolt out of habit. I quickly realized that I could just oil the part where it sits on the rails though. The bolt and bolt carrier itself stays very clean, the piston, gas plug, and gas tube get really dirty. The bolt head gets just a little dirty. It weighs noticeably more than a M4, especially on the front end as others mentioned. I don't think of that as being a bad thing necessarily since I'm just shooting mine on the range and not lugging it around on patrol and the weight holds down muzzle climb and noticeably dampens the recoil.

The wife just got me an AK74 So when I get back stateside I'll take that thing all apart, look it over, see how it shoots, etc. and then I can compare the two from personal experience and not just what I read on teh interwebs.

One note on the Sig 556 is that if you're a reloader you might not like it. Mine throws the brass really far away, throws it in a large kinda random pattern, and dings most of the brass casings. It does cycle fine with the cheap Wolf stuff though, so I've mostly just been shooting that.

 

[TrickyDick]

I saw a 556 and immediately fell in love... It took the simplicities and reliability of an AK, and combined it with the accuracy of an AR. Its a sharp rifle, I want one so bad, but the wife isn't too keen on me spending that kind of money on a gun. Someday......

 

[wally]

CDNN is running a special where you buy a 556 and get a free 522.

 

[longdayjake]

This thread is fail until it gets some pictures of the actual rifle!

 

[-v-]

From all range reports on the 556 is that SUB-MOA accuracy is achievable with good ammo. I think one member here was able to get .75" 100-yard groups with his using Federal 55gr Match ammo. If you get the M4-style stock, a heavier sliding stock helps to balance the rifle out nicely.

 

[happygeek]

This thread is fail until it gets some pictures of the actual rifle!

So far the AK74 has proven reliable enough to function even with excessive cat hair in the action. I have thus far been successful at keeping them out of the Sig's rifle case and hence can't speak to the Sig556's reliability under similar conditions. Dang cats get into everything

 

[HexHead]

I'm coming up on 3k rounds with zero malfunctions of any kind.

Is there any finish left on the receiver behind the ejection port?

 

[Hatterasguy]

Yes because I had some sticky velcro on it for the first 2,500 rounds. Than I said srew it some wear looks cool.


Now I'm over 3k rounds with zero malfunctions, I still think this is the best 5.56 carbine made.

 

[Hatterasguy]

From all range reports on the 556 is that SUB-MOA accuracy is achievable with good ammo. I think one member here was able to get .75" 100-yard groups with his using Federal 55gr Match ammo. If you get the M4-style stock, a heavier sliding stock helps to balance the rifle out nicely.

Since the barrel is a 1/7 twist the lighter stuff doesn't always do so well. But guys on the Sig forum have posted pictures of solid MOA groups at 100 yards with 70gr+ rounds.

They seem to love the heavy bullets.