AK build, no shop press, advice?

[jason41987]

hey everyone.. im looking to start this AK build rather soon, but im going to need a few tools first... a shop press would help... but im also moving soon and cant take such a tool with me, dont even have room for it now... so i was looking at different ways people made their own systems for bending flats by building a jig they just tighten bolts down on to press it all into the U shape needed... also looked at people using sheet metal breaks for this purpose and it honestly looked better than using a shop press

so what would you recommend for the bending of the blanks?

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also, since i wont be using a shop press, im looking for a different way for crushing rivets... looked into the bolt cutter modification and it does interest me, but the rivets usually come out looking pretty messed up.. can these be cleaned up with a file for a better looking end result using the bolt cutter method?

also thought about having some plates with rivet head cups on them, and using a clamp or vice to squeeze the plates against the sides of the receiver, crushing the rivets and preserving the head

which method would be best for crushing rivets?.. and i dont think a screw build would interest me very much

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and lastly... am i better off spot welding the rails to the receiver? my intent is to spot weld them AFTER the trunnion is installed so that the rails can be perfectly aligned with the front trunnion... what is the least i could purchase an adequate spot welder for? or am i better off trying to rent one of these locally?

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i should mention this will in fact be a bulgarian AK-74 kit with a side-folding rear trunnion, and that i will also be riveting the side rail into place as well

 

[briansmithwins]

What's the purpose of building it yourself?

Cuz if it's saving money that's not going to happen.

How are you hardening the receiver after it's bent? Setting headspace? AKs ain't AR-15s, they are harder to assemble. They were designed to be used by peasants, not built by them.

BSW

 

[jason41987]

ive built an AK before, but it was a screw build that already had the barrel and trunnion, didnt need to headspace it or press in rivets, but i will need to get the headspacing gauges for the new barrel, and dont want to go with a screw build on this one... i was going to torch the creases and holes in the receiver to harden them, drop them in oil to harden the metal...

my only issue is that im probably not going to get very clean rivets using anything but a press... so im wondering if it would be possible to smooth them out with some sand paper before painting?... or run with flat rivets which ive seen before that didnt look too bad... i guess i could always re-rivet later on if it wasnt the cleanest looking

 

[jason41987]

oh.. forgot to answer the other question.. my purpose of doing it is to have something to do, a more challenging project than putting together, for example, an AR15.. and im in need of a good AK-74

 

[highorder]

If you're looking for something to do, and are willing to spend some money; acquire the proper tools for this and future AK builds. There's no easy way to make a kitchen table build look like a shop build.

There's no sense in building a Khyber Pass AK unless that's exactly what you want.

ETA: a quick buzz around Harbor Freight and I ended up with nearly $400 in tools to do the job right. Good workspace is another matter.

 

[jason41987]

well, its not about affording the tools, just dont have the space for a shop press.. its something on my list to buy once i move to a larger place... im thinking the modified bolt cutter would be sufficient for now, once i have the shop press it wouldnt be much to remove the old rivets and re-do it.. but that wont be until well into next year

also... im noticing a few new top mount options for optics... is anything more reliable at holding zerothan the AK side mount?... ive seen forearms that had a top rail that extended rearward over the receiver, as well as the dog leg mount, but dont know anyone whos used either of these before

 

[highorder]

No room for a shop press?

An arbor press (for rivets) can be purchased for less that $40 and is the size of a gallon of milk. If you don't even have a work bench, you're not getting any good work done.

I'm not busting your chops, I've just spend enough years in the shop to know better.

 

[fatcat4620]

The top tier mounts will be as secure as the side rail but I dont think any are more secure.

 

[highorder]

Here's some info about DIY sheet metal brakes.

I still prefer a small bench mount model at the very least.

 

[Ian]

You really should weld in the rails before installing the front trunnion. Once the trunnion is mounted, access to the rails with the spot welder gets a lot trickier. So set the trunnion in place and use a couple rivets just as pins to locate it, then align your rails and clamp them firmly in place. Then you can remove the trunnion and do your welding.

From my experience bending AK flats, I would say that there is no acceptable substitute for having a shop press. It doesn't need to be big, though - a Harbor Freight 6-ton unit uses about 2 square feet of floor space. If you can't handle that, then just buy a complete receiver from NoDak.

 

[jason41987]

i was actually going to purchase the break, and make a piece for it to hold the receiver straight while its being folded...

ive thought about buying an arbor press.. seems it would also be better for pressing out the rivets than banging on them with a punch and hammer... would this really be an asset to the build if i dont have the space for a 12-ton hydraulic?... and can the arbor press be used to bend the sheet metal as well? and what would i need for using the arbor for rivets?

so, the dog-leg and the mako rails would probably be a better investment than the AK-style side mount?... using one of those would allow me to actually fold the stock without removing the side mount, which is a plus.. but id probably install the side mount anyway...

im also looking into different stocks, i wanted to go with a side folding trunnion, but besides the standard AK-74 side folding stocks, there doesnt seem to be any aftermarket ones made to use this.. they all seem to use the tanged, fixed stock trunnions... so if anyone knows of any, id love to know... it just seems so inefficient to need a block to convert a fixed trunnion to a side folding mechanism when you can get a side-folding mechanism built into the AK already

also.. ian.. thats a really good idea, to temporarily set the trunnion in place to see where its going to set and install the rails first

 

[highorder]

seems it would also be better for pressing out the rivets than banging on them with a punch and hammer...

If it only seems that way, respectfully you don't have the experience or skills to complete this project. Fear not! Give it your best shot and take your time. Worry less about this part and that part and get a few books on basic metal working.

Practice riveting scraps together, learn to use a grinder, Find a sheet metal brake and make the same metal toolbox we all made in shop class. It was a good project; bending, folding, spot welding, deburring, rivets, etc.

Its good to start somewhere. An Ak probably isn't the best place.

 

[Sam1911]

You're going to need the modified bolt cutter tool to do some of the rivets anyway. You can grind/drill the jaws to give you a proper looking exterior rivet head. Or, I do believe there are some sources to buy that tool already made.

The AKS-74 style stock uses a very different rear block from the tanged fixed stock or other side folders. They are quite nice and rigid. Very light, and comfortable to shoot as well, especially with a paracord wrap around the top arm. One of the best folding stock designs around. The AK-100 series polymer folding stocks appear to be an exact match, though I've not done that conversion myself: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/691/ak100.jpg/sr=1

Having done flat builds, I won't bother with that again. The NODAKSPUD receivers are too nice. Time was when you could get a Romanian G AKM kit (with barrel, of course) and a flat for like $80. It made some sense to beat one together yourself just to say you did, and to have the cheapest AK you could get. Now the parts kits are an investment, and usually need a barrel, and by the time you've taken care of the 922(r) parts, you've got real money invested. Sure makes it hard to want to use a receiver that's the very best you were able to do in your garage without the right tools. There's enough work in building an AK even if you're using a good receiver. NODAK is worth the money.

 

[jason41987]

as ive said, ive built an AK in the past.. rivets werent all that difficult to remove.. couple needed to have the center drilled out, but in all not that difficult.. what makes this time around more difficult is making the receiver from a blank, and going with rivets, instead of screws, installing the barrel, headspacing, pinning, and assembly of the remaining parts is all territory ive already been in

and for sam1911.. the stock you posted is the one i had in mind.. or even the skeletonized one you mentioned.. i seen that one with a full paracord wrap that really looked nice... and gives a fairly large amount of paracord in reserve should i ever need it which is nice

 

[highorder]

Jason, I read your other posts and I see that you're a smart guy. My apologies for saying the project is beyond your skills. It looks like it's merely beyond your tools.

An AK from a flat is a big job.

 

[Sam1911]

I started a flat-build with my Bulgarian AKS-74. By the time I had the barrel back in and all the rivets done and the rail in...I looked at that beautiful parts kit and took it down to the chop-saw and cut it all back apart again. Couldn't bear it.

Ordered an NDS2-SF receiver and now have a -74 that garners jealousy from my AK-genius pals and will do 2" off the bench with 7n6 ammo.

 

[mljdeckard]

Can you rent a press from a general rental place?

 

[jason41987]

im in a pretty small town, and am about 2 hours from a place that would have anything like that... i can bend the flat on a break... as for rivets, they dont have to be pretty... the bolt cutter tool should be sufficient... i could smooth them out by hand until they look acceptable... after i move and collect the shop press it would be much easier for me to remove those old rivets and re-do them with cleaner ones

what sort of spot welder am i going to need to find for this project?

 

[highorder]

i can bend the flat on a break... as for rivets, they dont have to be pretty... the bolt cutter tool should be sufficient... i could smooth them out by hand until they look acceptable... after i move and collect the shop press it would be much easier for me to remove those old rivets and re-do them with cleaner ones

I don't understand... half-build a rifle with half-proper tools, then rebuild it later?

Why not dig a hole, and dig another hole to fill the first one?

 

[jason41987]

redoing the rivets would be for aesthetics, and thats only if they dont look all that great.. however ive seen some AK builds done with this tool that looked as clean as those with a press... so itll probably come down to my skill with the rivet tool, if i practice first i wouldnt have to re-rivet later

 

[Sam1911]

Remember, you can't do all the rivets with any one tool. They're different enough to require several different approaches to get all of it complete.

 

[jason41987]

im seeing one rivet tool thats essentially a c-clamp with cups over the rivets to shape them.. clamp is tightened down to press long rivets... bolt cutter tool would probably work better for the short ones... i could make both of these myself

 

[Sam1911]

bolt cutter tool would probably work better for the short ones.

If successful with that, you'd then just need a jig to rivet the trigger guard/mag catch. That could be simply a large punch (or allen wrench?) cupped to cradle the rivet head and then a 3/4" bolt with the middle ground away (to clear the rails) to upset the back of the rivet.

 

[jason41987]

yeah, it seems like there are fairly simple ways to do this with hand tools and homemade jigs or other tools... i guess i just need to figure out what im going to do for welding the rails on.. either buy a spot welder (not sure what ill need for this or what itll cost) but i guess i could also drill the receiver and mig-weld the rails on

and also, figure out what i intend to use for furniture and an optics mount.. ill probably install the side rail on the AK, to have it since that will also require fitting and riveting, but ill probably go with either the texas weapon systems dog leg, or the mako forearm that has a top rail that extends over the top cover... my intention is to use a red-dot sight of some sort... the side rails on an AK look rather heavy

 

[jason41987]

where are the long through-rivets on an AK-74?... dont the rear trunnions have a split in them to use normal rivets?... and if i used a screw-plate for the trigger guard, wouldnt i only need a single rivet tool such as the bolt cutter tool?... but looking at how the bolt cutter tool works and ak-builder jig works.. it looks like i would be able to take a bar clamp or pipe clamp and grind down one of the edges to fit inside the receiver to crush the rivets with this method... get a rivet as clean as those with a press since its a linear force being applied to it

i know personally just how much force a pipe clamp is capable of delivering, and ive crushed steel with it that wasnt as soft as rivets... and ive already found some "deep reach" pipe clamps that have longer, narrower pieces to them to fit inside tighter areas... if i took a steel plate and machined a cup into it to support the rivet head, i could place the plate over the rivet, and then tighten down with the pipe clamp to crush accordingly... also, with the plate over the rivet head i could clamp this down with c-clamps to ensure the outside of the rivet remains flat to the receiver.... about $25 for this tool, plus a steel pipe of any length i need